OK Republicans---You HAPPY NOW?

[BLUEHAWK]

Originally posted by urbsdad6 Gimpy.... Amen and Amen brother! I would rather see my brothers get the absolute best care than worry about Space Exploration, etc., etc. Although I'm a Republican I can see someone "Strategerizing" and "Catapaulting the propaganda" out of their hind quarters. The Bastich just wants to send our own into the meatgrinder and could really give a Flak about Duty, Honor, and Country. As long as he doesn't have to worry about coming home with a tube in his gut or his legs and hands missing he's just gonna bow his head in mock prayer to acknowledge the sacrifices of the Veterans. We've got the money for bombs and bullets, why don't we have the money for the results of using those bombs and bullets?


Doc Urb

In my opinion, the underlying assertions in the above, would not be well received if delivered in person inside the Pentagon, at the White House or on any American military installation anywhere on earth... nor, in certain quarters, are they well received here; inasmuch as they lack basis in fact.

[Gimpy]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK

c. A lot of assertions are being thrown around about how the VA budget came to be, how it is going to come down, and now the "line item veto." Show me proof, that George W. Bush (or any President, for that matter), the man who gave the order to send us into battle, would intentionally, negligently, and purposefully deprive Veterans of anything that was within HIS power to grant them !

Alright Mista Blue! That has been accomplished...........without the least little biddy doubt.

The "PROOF" you so artfully described being needed has been supplied.

The following "sources" are without question with regards to the accuracy of their statements as supplied in the above post:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/rele....9.html,...and,

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/c....ions/,....and,

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003....6.shtml,...and

http://democrats.senate.gov/dpc/dpc....08-2-39,...and

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w....03Jan16,...and

the Washington Post, 10/7/02, p.A02,....and,

President Bush's "Senior Advisors",....

and JOSEPH A. VIOLANTE NATIONAL LEGISLATIVE DIRECTOR for The Disabled American Veterans (DAV).

I have the ability to secure MORE if you really believe it's needed after this compelling and most thorough accounting of the evidence you seemed to be unable (or unwilling) to locate and/or accept.

What kind of unbelievable, improbable or outlandish excuses are you gonna attempt to use to try and subvert the TRUTH of these facts presented to you, huh??? :cd: :cd:

Just asking.

[BLUEHAWK]

I checked your links, not one of them "could be found", according to the windows that appeared for each.

Okay, but let us assume that those are further assertions.

In what way do those, whatever they were, prove that the President, "...intentionally, negligently and purposefully" meant to deprive Veterans of our due?

Originally posted by Gimpy


Alright Mista Blue! That has been accomplished...........without the least little biddy doubt.

The "PROOF" you so artfully described being needed has been supplied.

The following "sources" are without question with regards to the accuracy of their statements as supplied in the above post:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/rele....9.html,...and,

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/c....ions/,....and,

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003....6.shtml,...and

http://democrats.senate.gov/dpc/dpc....08-2-39,...and

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w....03Jan16,...and

the Washington Post, 10/7/02, p.A02,....and,

President Bush's "Senior Advisors",....

and JOSEPH A. VIOLANTE NATIONAL LEGISLATIVE DIRECTOR for The Disabled American Veterans (DAV).

I have the ability to secure MORE if you really believe it's needed after this compelling and most thorough accounting of the evidence you seemed to be unable (or unwilling) to locate and/or accept.

What kind of unbelievable, improbable or outlandish excuses are you gonna attempt to use to try and subvert the TRUTH of these facts presented to you, huh??? :cd: :cd:

Just asking.

[Gimpy]

This is the post that you should have tried to connect to the "links" mentioned. Not that last post that you quoted which had the word "and" added to the "links".

It won't work that way. But, the ORIGINAL post below that I've "quoted" will get you to those url's. It damn sure does from my computor anyway.

Regardless............your question......"In what way do those, whatever they were, prove that the President, "...intentionally, negligently and purposefully" meant to deprive Veterans of our due?" .... is absolutely astounding!

If the facts presented before you by the DAV, the other sources mentioned, the Presidents OWN statements for Gods' sake (as well as his "Senior Advisors") that threatened VETO of the bills in question along with his "puposeful, negligent intent" to categorically UNDERFUND the VA healthcare budget and NOT EVEN ATTEMPT to FULLY FUND CONCURRENT RECEIPT dosen't "DEPRIVE VETERANS OF OUR DUE".........just WHAT in the NAME OF HELL DOES???


This is EXACTLY what I meant when I said this.........."What kind of unbelievable, improbable or outlandish excuses are you gonna attempt to use to try and subvert the TRUTH of these facts presented to you, huh/"........... Nice try, but it AIN"T GONNA WORK!

You folks really ARE living in DENIAL, aren't you??? :cd: :cd:

Originally posted by Gimpy You asked for it, here it is.................and this is just SOME of it!

Here's that "PROOF" you were lookin for!


***********
Bush Thanks Veterans,
Then Cuts Their Health Care
The Daily Mis-Lead
6-2-04

President Bush spent the Memorial Day weekend thanking the nation's veterans for their service, saying "we acknowledge the debt [we owe them] by showing our respect and gratitude."

Yet, his rhetoric came just hours after the Bush Administration announced new plans to slash veterans health care funding if it returns to power in 2005.

Late last week, the Administration released a memo detailing a plan to cut $1 billion from the Veterans Administration in the first budget of its second term. The cut would come even after the White House has tried to close veterans hospitals throughout the country, and has proposed veterans health care budgets that have been criticized by veterans groups and the President's own Veterans Affairs secretary.

It also comes after the president decided to cut off 164,000 veterans from their existing prescription drug coverage, and threatened to veto any bill that would allow veterans to receive both the military pension they were promised, and any disability compensation to which they are entitled.

Sources:
1. Presidential Weekly Radio Address Speech,
WhiteHouse.gov, 05/29/04.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea.../20040529.html

2. "Democrats rip Bush's outline for cuts in domestic
programs," Palm Beach Post, 5/28/04.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/co...aper/editions/
today/news_046b8a51b0d3412100f5.html

3. "VA Seeks Major Hospital Overhaul," CBS News,
8/05/03.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in566686.shtml

4. "President Bush's Veterans' Budget Called Woefully
Inadequate and Inexcusable," Senate Democratic Policy
Committee, 2/12/04.
http://democrats.senate.gov/dpc/dpc-...me=fs-108-2-39

5. "VA Cuts Some Veterans' Access to Health Care,"
Washington Post, 1/17/03.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...4064-2003Jan16

6. "Bush Threatens Veto of Defense Bill," Washington
Post, 10/7/02, p.A02.

******************
By Vernon Loeb

Washington Post Staff Writer

Monday, October 7, 2002; Page A02

Alarmed by the cost of expanding military entitlement programs, President Bush has threatened to veto the $355 billion defense authorization bill for the new fiscal year if House and Senate conferees do not eliminate new pension benefits for disabled military retirees that could cost from $18.5 billion to $58 billion over the next decade.


*********************

July 22, 2004

The Honorable C. W. Bill Young

Chairman

Committee on Appropriations

U.S. House of Representatives

Washington, D.C. 20515

Dear Mr. Chairman:

The Administration appreciates the expeditious consideration of the thirteen FY 2005 Appropriations Bills in the House, including the FY 2005 Department of Veterans Affairs, Housing and Urban Development, and Independent Agencies Appropriations Bill.

The Administration, however, would not support House passage of the FY 2005 VA/HUD Appropriations bill as it is currently drafted.

The President?s Budget responsibly holds the growth in total discretionary spending to less than four percent and the growth in non-security spending to less than one percent, while providing the critical resources needed for our Nation?s highest priorities, such as:

Fighting the war on terror, strengthening our homeland defenses, and sustaining the momentum of our economic recovery.

The Administration appreciates the Committee?s support for our veterans. The Administration is disappointed, however, that many of the other priorities??? outlined in the President?s FY 2005 Budget are not adequately funded in this bill, including the President?s ?Vision for Space Exploration,? the HUD portion of the Prisoner Re-entry Initiative, and AmeriCorps.

(GIVE ME A PHUCKIN BREAK, WILL YA? THESE ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN MILITARY VETERANS BENEFITS????----GIMP)


If the final version of this bill that is presented to the President does not include adequate funding levels for Presidential initiatives, his Senior Advisors would recommend that he veto the bill.

***************************
2002-2003 ANNUAL REPORT
of the
DISABLED AMERICAN VETERANS
LEGISLATIVE DEPARTMENT
by
JOSEPH A. VIOLANTE
NATIONAL LEGISLATIVE DIRECTOR
for presentation to
THE 82ND NATIONAL CONVENTION
NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA
AUGUST 16-19, 2003

Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) Secretary Anthony Principi had made projections early in 2002 that he would need an additional $400 million during fiscal year (FY) 2002 to avoid freezing enrollment for VA medical care . Based on those projections, we had an ongoing grassroots campaign urging Congress to provide that amount in the FY 2002 supplemental appropriations bill, which had been reported by the House Appropriations Committee in May 2002.

Despite Secretary Principi?s projection, the President had asked Congress for only $142 million in supplemental appropriations for VA medical care. Congress included $417 million for veterans? medical care in the bill it cleared for the President?s signature on July 24, 2002 . However, by law the money could not be spent unless the President designated it as emergency spending. The President signed the bill into law on August 2, 2002, but he would only designate $142 million of the amount Congress provided for VA as emergency spending. Consequently, $275 million of the money was never released to VA, though VA had reached the point where it had to freeze enrollment, and veterans receiving treatment were waiting for months for medical appointments.

***************

For those of you living in that "paralellel universe" ....that's a back door V-E-T-O if I EVER saw one!----Gimp.......... As is this quote from the same report........"We do face more opposition from the present Administration, which appears to be dead set against concurrent receipt legislation, mandatory funding for VA medical care, and any sufficiently higher appropriations for veterans? programs. When VA?s witnesses testify on bills before the Veterans? Affairs Committees of the House and Senate, they are really messengers bearing the Administration?s position on the legislation under consideration. On almost all legislation that will require additional expenditures of money to improve or expand programs for veterans, VA now testifies in opposition, consistent with the Administration?s overarching goal of reducing, rather than expanding, Federal programs.
****************


You need any MORE "PROOF "..................just let me know, ok????????

[BLUEHAWK]

Has anyone thought to get the rest of the stories?

To take another approach...

If a n y President (CINC) were to have done anything resembling what is being alledged above, then I am fairly certain there would have been a mutiny on the part of a great many military commanders, and by their orders (if not beforehand) their subordinates right on down the line.

Even the stupidest lamest most selfish President America has ever had knew and knows that without our armed forces, not ONE thing they ordered done would have the slightest chance of being carried out. So, if for NO other reason, even the worst of the whole bunch are not going to do something purposefully negligent and wantonly injurious to any Veteran or active service member.

People have been trying to stick Presidents with this kind of a charge ever since the Revolution. What we come to find out is that the oversight is either quickly remedied or the fault belongs somewhere else.

Take it to the bank.

[Gimpy]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK Has anyone thought to get the rest of the stories?

Yep......I've got some more below for ya!---Gimp

To take another approach...

If a n y President (CINC) were to have done anything resembling what is being alledged above, then I am fairly certain there would have been a mutiny on the part of a great many military commanders, and by their orders (if not beforehand) their subordinates right on down the line.


There HAS been.........Have you even READ the countless numbers of former military officers and enlisted men & women who've spoken out against Bushs' proposals???----Gimp

Not only is what I've placed before you as "proof" are the FACTS, but Bush's 2004 budget proposal cut $206 million from the Impact Aid program that helps make sure children of those fighting overseas receive quality education.

The new Republican tax cuts also made a point to exclude some military families by not allowing combat pay to be included in the income that can go toward claiming the credit. Many of those who don't get to claim the extra income won't get the tax credit.

And, Bush sought to cut $150 million from aid to schools that attended by the children of enlistees and further cuts to VA budgets.

All you gotta do is some simple Google searches to find out this information. And it comes from such reputable and trustworthy organizations such as the American Legion, the DAV, VFW, Paralyzed Veterans of America, Vietnam Veterans of America, etc.


Joe Fox of Paralyzed Veterans of Americans said "the reductions will slam the poorest disabled veterans and cut GI Bill benefits for soldiers who are currently serving in Iraq." It could also eliminate 9000 doctors from an already taxed system. Fox said it was "an in-your-face insult to the veterans of this country."


"Pressures on the VA health care system have escalated to a critical point that can no longer be ignored by our government," said Joe Violante, legislative director for the Disabled American Veterans.


Due to a shortage of funding there is a backlog in claims from Gulf War veterans of almost 500,000 (a third of veterans of that war) and another 500,000 compensation and pension cases backlogged. Also because of budget cuts, the VA has had to treat more than 1.4 million additional veterans in the last seven years with 20,000 fewer staff employees.

According to DAV this means hardships for any veterans who need new benefits in the future. The cuts a particularly devastating because soldiers are amongst the lowest paid people in our society. And, there are more than two thousand active soldiers and their families that currently have to accept food stamps in order feed themselves.


President Bush, however, suggested only a 2% raise for low-ranking soldiers in his 2003 budget. But, you and many, many other upper-class and wealthy folks got that damn TAX CUT, didn't you?


I'll be glad to supply you with more compelling evidence..........but from the looks of your response thus far it dosen't seem it will undo that mangled mess of propaganda floating around in that hard head of yours that you've been spoon fed by your republican "puppet" masters.

[BLUEHAWK]

a. The reasoned comments made by former commanders and other senior military concerning the conduct of the war are a whole lot different than the spew that is spewing in other sectors.
I sometimes agree with their perceptions, and sometimes not, but they take the care (usually) to state their educated opinions without resorting to derogatory and insulting falsehoods.

b. Responsibility for approving budgets rests with the United States Congress.

c. What in the world would ever have made anyone think that I am "... upper class and wealthy", or that I benefitted one bit from the tax cut being referred to? If someone were to add up the combined incomes and savings of every known living member of my family, we'd still not begin to reach that threshhold.

IF the economic plan this administration has laid out does actually accomplish what they projected it should, then, maybe, all of us will benefit in some way or another. That was the plan anyhow, but I myself have no real way of tracing whether it is working or not the way it is supposed to. In my limited experience, unpleasant economic news for someone pretty much accompanies every administration sooner or later.

[Gimpy]

not EVER admit that George W. Bush has been found to be guilty as charged in the "proof" that you asked for and I supplied you?

If not.................I think a detailed explantion is due everyone who participates in these discussions as well as any visitors that may peruse these pages.

Are you attempting to say the DAV, VFW, American Legion, the Paralyzed Veterans of America, The Vietnam Veterans of America, The Retired Military Officers Association, AMVETS, The Military Order of the Purple Heart and ALL the OTHER well intended and reputable "sources" are LYING about their allegations against Bush and his administration.

Are you REALLY that DEEP in DENIAL that you can't see these folks are telling the TRUTH? Or is it simply to disgusting and revolting for you to comprehend that GEE-W could do this?

You...........like your counterparts evidently can not accept (or will not) that your choice to lead this Nation has abandoned his pledge to disabled and retired military Veterans as well as the current military personnel serving as we speak!

And THAT my friend causes JUST as much damage to all of us as does the injustices Bush himself has committed! Because of YOUR lack of outrage and continued acceptance of his behavior with regards to the "PROOF" I've supplied you, he will CONTINUE on his course of neglect and outright abandonment of Veterans causes!

[Gimpy]

Silence is "deafening"! :cd: :cd: :cd: :cd:

[BLUEHAWK]

Originally posted by Gimpy
...he will CONTINUE on his course of neglect and outright abandonment of Veterans causes!

Okay, tell ya what.

I'd like you to get an appointment with the President, the VA Director and the Joint Chiefs to present them your best top five allegations.

Please take complete notes or an audio tape of their responses, in full, and publish the unedited transcript here on PF, and anywhere else that might be useful.

Deal?