For Gimpy and James

[nel9]

For Gimpy and James: why you called Seascamp "racist" and why you hated him? You know him personally? I think as fellow compatriots you should not talk like that to your fellow VN vets. You're all here just to cite your views but not to fight each other and say names to other members. You're not acting like a galant man. I hope and pray the two of you will be enlightened in god's will.

[exlrrp]

Originally posted by nel9 For Gimpy and James: why you called Seascamp "racist" and why you hated him? You know him personally? I think as fellow compatriots you should not talk like that to your fellow VN vets. You're all here just to cite your views but not to fight each other and say names to other members. You're not acting like a galant man. I hope and pray the two of you will be enlightened in god's will.

I have never called Seascamp a racist in my life!! (Conservatiives, yes--seascamp as an idividual: no)What are you talking about?
this is just more of complete BS the consrvatives like to throw out. As always, there won't be any proof of this at all.
Pray for your own ass-I know where I'm going

[Gimpy]

What my friend James said!....................

[Seascamp]

?Loyalty to a friend or to a benefactor is one trait that is very strong in the Filipino. Do them a little favor and he remembers you to the end of his days. For to the Filipino friendship is sacred and implies mutual help under any circumstances. A friend is expected to come to the aid not only of a personal friend, but also to the latter?s family. A Filipino?s friend is considered a member of the family. And is expected to share it?s tribulations as well as its prosperity and happiness. It is almost unthinkable for the Filipino to betray his friend, and if there be such one, he becomes a marked man; ostracism is the lightest punishment that can be meted out to him.?

Teodoro A. Agoncillo
History of the Filipino People, First Edition, 1960.

So as to set the record straight, I should not have shared my frustration with PF name calling with my adopted family members in the PI. Given the above reality, they will react and are exceptionally protective of me. I could live there forever in peace and protection simply because I fulfill my part of the friendship agreement, totally.

I did not know Nel would react like that until after she had posted so the allegation that she participated in a scam is really out of line. By nature, she is very shy and non-combative so her post even surprised me, but it shouldn?t have. Her three Sons? are the lions at her gate and I have been very generous and helpful to them. So I really hope all this ends right now. Nel did no wrong nor was she running some right wing scam, she was reacting out of cultural background, and that?s all.

And yes, both of you put the ?racist? label on me. Perhaps you get in too many fights and in the heat of things don?t recall exactly what was said. I did talk to Tom on the telephone about your ?racist? allegation James and he coached me to be more careful with my choice of words around you. And so I have until very recently. Come on Mr. Gimpy, you nailed my ass for and labeled me a ?racist? for using Negro slang. But I see you don?t slam dunk James for using Negro slang like ?axe?.

Maybe I?ll put up comments I get from around the world, including Communist and former Communist countries and then you might just understand why I have become so outraged about the labels and why I will never forget such things. You guys want a bloody fight, fight me, but leave the Pinoy out of it. You don?t want that kind of fight, ever.

Itik-Itik, mahal kita mahal and I?m so very sorry I said anything to you about all this. I should know better and please forgive my Gringo ignorance.

Scamp

[Gimpy]

[i]Originally posted by Seascamp [/iCome on Mr. Gimpy, you nailed my ass for and labeled me a ?racist? for using Negro slang. But I see you don?t slam dunk James for using Negro slang like ?axe?.

Maybe I?ll put up comments I get from around the world, including Communist and former Communist countries and then you might just understand why I have become so outraged about the labels and why I will never forget such things. You guys want a bloody fight, fight me, but leave the Pinoy out of it. You don?t want that kind of fight, ever.


Scamp

My dear Mr. Scamp................I never asked for 'a bloody fight' with your friend, or you either for that matter. I didn't put up a 'post' directed specifically at YOU..... like your friend did to me (and James), now did I??

If he/she (or you) do not want a response, I suggest you (or he/she) refrain from posting in such a manner as it appears you (or he/she) may be so inclined either unknowingly or unawareingly appear one is expected?

The post you refer to where you say "I nailed your ass"........was a 'one time' occurence and was specifically intended (if my memory serves me right) to show where YOU were as at LEAST as 'guilty' of some of the same behavior that you so artfully claim to be disgusted with in other folks?

I have NEVER thought you to be a 'racist', nor will I ever accuse you of such. That particular post you mentioned was what I thought to be 'offensive' and showed little regard for the sensitivity and obvious flagrant nature of that type of 'language' as is applies to folks of 'color'.

I have NOT had the opportunity to peruse all the posts that James has made on this site and am therefore not able to recall where I was involved with, or had the chance to read where the word you mentioned was in fact used by James, or what the circumstances were where it may have been used.

I have no intention of attempting to 'single' you out for any personal attacks, be it of the 'racist' kind OR any other.

And, I would expect the same in return from YOU as well.

Have a nice day.

[Arrow]

If he/she (or you) do not want a response, I suggest you (or he/she) refrain from posting in such a manner as it appears you (or he/she) may be so inclined either unknowingly or unawareingly appear one is expected?

Steve,

I find your reference to Nel as he/she completely offensive. Scamp made clear in his post that Nel was a treasured female friend of his from the Philippines by using her name Nel (twice), the pronoun she (five times) and the pronoun her (three times).You completely ignoredhis gentlemanly defense of Nel andhis kindwordsregarding herculture and loyal friendship in your attempt to further discredit his character by inferring with the pronouns he/she that his testimony of her character and her history can't be relied on thus bolstering that ridiculous statement of James that this was some right wing scam.

Thepopular use of the word "spin" comes to mind when reading your explanation ofthe original matter.Scamp is aman of great moral character,a truth teller andthose that know himjust don't take kindly to your putting a spin on his wordstrying to cast doubt on his integrityto proveyour politically correctagenda in regard to conservatives in general.

The use of the term "folks of color" is an outdated term, considered politically incorrect and demeaning but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one Steve.That's more than you did for Scamp.

Arrow>>>>>

Once Upon A Time When We Were Colored
Once Upon A Time When We Were Colored

[Gimpy]

I reckon so....................that's me awright..............Old 'OutDated' Gimp!

My apologys to 'Nel'..................but however, NOT to Scamp.

I stand by what I said!

[Arrow]

My apologys to 'Nel'..................but however, NOT to Scamp.

I stand by what I said!

Ok Steve, if that's your notion, and mine is this; to stand by Scamp and his precious friend Nel until time shall be no more. I'm thankful for the opportunity to know so much of his history and through him to know some of Nels. His character, his intellect, his willingness to share his thoughts and lessons learned from his work and life experience have all beenvaluable gifts to all that have opened their hearts to know him.

Arrow>>>>>>

[catman]

Well, I guess I would have to see the post where James and Gimp called him a racist.

Have never met or talked to James, but am looking forward to it next April. Steve and I spent the better part of 45 minutes on the phone yesterday and it felt like we had known each other for years.

I would like to see the post.

Trav

[Arrow]

Trav...

I remember Steve chastising Scamp for using a wordthat Steve felt showed Scamp to be less than sensitive to what Steve terms "folks of color". I can't find the post right now and don't have the patience to look for it.

I pointed out to Steve that if I wanted to make a mountain out of mole hill as he did with Scamp his term "folks of color" would be where I could start as it is considered demeaning and politically incorrect. I could assume as he did with Scamp that he was being insensitive. Butbecause I've taken the time to know Steve's history (born and raised in the south)I knowhe believed he was being exceedingly polite to use the phrase.I see thiswhole issue over a wordas anexample of politically correct speech going over the top and attacking a man's character to prove a political point.

Stevehas made it clear that he believes the "new"RepublicanPartyand the "compassionate conservative" was morphedfrom acoalition ofDixiecrat's and Republicansbrought together by none otherRonald Reaganand is wholly responsible for all the social ills of this country includinggay bashing and racism. And of course those of us that vote Republican are either guilty by association or just to stupid to understand the issues.

This is where the issue of racism comes in from post like the one below. Steve's opinion of all of us to the right of his politics is summed up in this post. This is not a politcal statement this is an attack on the character of every Republican that post on this site. I know the answer to this post of minewill bethat he didn't single out any individual but that dog won't hunt with me. Steve can't label the whole Republican party racist and then say he didn't mean me or Scamp or Griz or Scout or Harvey Britt or every mother's son and daughter that has voted for the Republican party since Ronald Reagan came into office.

Pardon me, but your 'SHEET' and 'HOOD' are showing!

Next thing you know, they'll be wanting to legalize 'cross burning' again.

I was in line at my local supermarket near the coast here in Central Florida, the food chain; Publix who have been collecting money for hurricane victims. We here in Florida pride ourselves on being knowledgeable when it comes to hurricanes, especially after three came through last summer.

I replied to the cashier that I couldn?t understand what was taking so long on the Gulf Coast around New Orleans, the images of the suffering in New Orleans had been burned into my brain the way no image has since 9/11.

She agreed that it was taking way too long. I say it?s not like they don?t know what to expect. She says we never had problems like this, then the women in line behind me said "we are fortunate our local stores are doing this for the victims of the hurricaine", and everyone around us agreed.

But then I started thinking, why was this hurricane different? An instructive week, waiting for some kind of response while thousands go days without food, shelter, and water. The answer, as it turns out, is obvious, we are staring into the real face of compassionate conservatism.

That face showed it's ugly head again yesterday in the form of former Republican Education Secretary William Bennett on his radio show, "Morning in America," was answering a caller's question when he took issue with the hypothesis put forth in a recent book that one reason crime is down is that abortion is up.

He said this......."But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could, if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down," .......this comment came from the supposed Holy Grail of Values and Virtue in the Republican party and author of his best seller book entitled "The Book of Virtues."

This from the man who gambled away a fortune of his OWN families "values" while condemning others for doing the same.

Damn racist hypocrite!

The Democratic Party, the traditional home of racists and bigots, was shattered in the 1960?s by the betrayal of Lyndon Johnson and the Civil Rights Act of 1964. A thirty percent slice of the party splintered off for the next election, following George Wallace and his Dixecrats movement.

The Dixiecrat Movement was a little too on the money for mainstream America, the message of ?Segregation Forever? was made less appealing when television showed images of police dogs attacking little children, and fire hoses being turned on unarmed civilians. So the Dixiecrats went underground and bided their time.

They didn?t have long to wait, Nixon?s paranoia ultimately shattered the Republican Party, as well, and American political power lay broken, waiting for the right man to come along and pick up the pieces.

That man was Ronald Reagan, a political genius, who picked up the pieces and formed the new Republican coalition. Corporate America flocked to his banner, and so did the former Dixiecrats, now labeled the Moral Majority or the religious right, it was the same players with different names.

President Reagan merged what has turned out to be a coalition of steel out of the marriage of big business and fundamentalist Christianity. This new breed of Christian took the foreground in the late twentieth and now early twenty-first centuries, some calling themselves, fundamentalists, some Millennials, the message is always the same.

These are the ?Me Christians? the earth is God?s gift to mankind and it is their duty to exploit it.

So now the message from some pulpits is anti-environment and pro-big business. The same pulpits I might add, that thirty years ago were warning their congregations about the dangers of integration, the mixing of the races, and that dark skin was a result of the mark of Cain, God?s sign that these are the people he has decreed must suffer.

White America has made the minimal adjustments required by law, but the bigotry and ignorance still rule the land, it just happens off stage, not in the light where anyone can see. Sixty percent of the schools in America are not integrated. All black or mostly black schools are under funded and ignored. Most cities big and small still have a black section, or a poor section, on the ?wrong side of the tracks,? and most astonishing of all is the continued presumption that this is somehow their fault.

The message of trickle down economics is that anyone who tries hard enough in America will succeed, and that is simply not true. Despite the sprinkling of token blacks and token women, the boardrooms of America are still mostly boys' clubs, bowing to diversity only when it can?t be avoided.

So then along comes Hurricane Katrina, and these compassionate Christians can?t understand why New Orleans? poor couldn?t just load up the SUV with all their worldly belongings and hit the road. They didn?t know any better because they didn?t want to know.

Jeb Bush, when asked when he was first running for governor of Florida what he would do for his black constituency,
replied, ?probably nothing.? George W. Bush is the first president to refuse an invitation to address the NAACP, preferring instead the comfort of his constituency, at campaign stops like the segregated grounds of Bob Jones University.

Now that their message is out in the open, we must be on guard against the ?Compassionate Conservative.? Out and out racism is no longer fashionable, so they have chosen to exploit the bigotry of the voters in a different way. Whenever a candidate uses Gay Marriage as an issue, the compassionate Christians are on the march.

They are relatively easy to spot. Their favorite tool of suppression is the Bible; they use Old Testament Law to justify their anti-gay prejudice in the same way they used to use it to justify their suppression of black America.

They are hell bent on enforcing one verse in Leviticus, while ignoring most of the rest of the law.

These are the protesters who want the Ten Commandments in courthouses, reminding others what rules the Christian God has laid out for individual behavior. It is all-important that the rules of Christianity be forced on others, while they themselves ignore them. These are the people who rail against homosexual unions as somehow denigrating the value of the ?Institution? of Marriage, while ignoring that fact that 45% of these same marriages end in divorce.

It is any wonder then, thatBarbara Bush made her astonishing comment that for the poor and homeless, living in the Astrodome must be an ?adventure?? What a bitch! The ?new? Republican Party, then, is the party of the rich, the bigoted and the optimistic.

So the rich get richer, the bigoted are protected and everyone else is waiting for his or her chance to make a fortune in the ?so-called? land of opportunity. So we shouldn?t be surprised when their elected representatives vote outlandish tax cuts for the rich, channeling the money from Head Start into private and religious institutions, where the rich and bigoted send their money and their children, and suggesting that Senator John McCain might be a homosexual in order to defeat him in the South Carolina primary. Or that Max Clelland is a traitor while accusing him of not deserving his Silver Star and supposedly opposes going after Osama Bin Laden becauses he spoke out against the first version of the Patriot Act.

To the religious right, ?One Nation Under God? gives them the right to destroy the Bill of Rights, by whittling away at the separation of Church and State, in order to make their version of Christianity the national religion.

Where are the Democrats in all this, they have never really recovered from the elections of the late sixties and early seventies. The campaigns of George Wallace and George McGovern have left a bad taste in their mouths, and sullied the once proud moniker of the Liberal. The Democrats ignore their base, while trying to keep to the middle ground in order to get elected or re-elected. This version of Republican lite prevents the Democrats from standing up for oppressed minorities, the poor, the immigrants, the gays and lesbians, etc., for fear of being branded with that dirtiest of all campaign labels, that they might secretly be a liberal.

Well NOT ME!..........I'd MUCH rather be called a 'Liberal' than THEIR VERSION of a 'Compassionate Conservative' thank you very much!

Thanks to hurricane Katrina, America has had a glimpse of themselves in the mirror of tragedy. The question remains, then, what are they going to do about it. In the words of the Florida Governor, ?probably nothing.?

Maybe by next election we'll see if that 'mirrior' has a 'crack' in it, huh?????-Gimpy-

So there you have it Trav now you know who is to blame for all the social ills of this country since the Reagan administration. Never mind that we are rich, poor, black, yellow, red, brown, white with varying shades of each, gays, straight,atheist and believers.Let's just scapegoat the whole political movement and deliver it to Steve in a nice neat little package that fits his worldview.

I don't understand the tone of your post Trav as I've always encouraged you guys to get to know each other as real time people. My memory is very clear oftelling you back channelof Steve's historyas a veterans advocate and histime in Vietnam. I also mentioned the fact that inspite of his own pain he went to AL to carry Frank to his final resting place. I disagree strongly with Steve on some of his politics but not all. I'm probably more to the left of most Republicans when it comestothe distribution of tax dollars. Steve and I have encouraged each other in the support of our veterans multiple times over. And as a matter of fact it pains me deeply to be at odds with him or any veteran on this site because of the respect I have for their service.

Although it doesn't seem tobother them at all when they get crossways with me.

Arrow>>>>>>>>

Sheet & Hood