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Old 05-09-2004, 10:41 AM
HARDCORE HARDCORE is offline
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Question Geneva Convention?


The Geneva Convention provides for humane treatment for prisoners and wounded in wartime. The first Geneva Convention was penned in 1864, and the terms of this agreement were signed by the United States, all European countries, as well as some of the nations of Asia and South America!

For that matter, even the Nuremberg Codes (1947), as pertains to experimentation, have been stretched to the breaking point on far too many occasions. ( re: DAIG -IN-21-75, COS MEMO 385, and the Church Senate Reports of 1977, just to mention a few examples!!)

?In the heat and carnage of mortal conflict, however, it is often difficult to embrace all of humanity when faced with the reality of what war is really all about!?

Such apparently, was the case recently in the Middle East, when a group of American soldiers (male & female), claiming to be acting upon orders from above, attempted to extract information from enemy prisoners. It is alleged in charges and photos that they went totally overboard - sexually and mentally!

The real problem, however, was when a scant few of our people genuinely appeared to enjoy that ghastly routine. God (while He is still welcome in portions of our nation that is) forbid!

This (recent) display of beastly behavior echoed aloud, at least once before to a major degree - over six decades ago to be exact! And should any of our own female military personnel (again) be captured by like thinking enemy combatants, what then would our own response be?

?Any outcry and bitching from domestic quarters could then prove to be moot and hypocritical, however, could it not?!? Especially considering the sordid photos that were recently aired internationally!

When one darns the uniform of our truly great nation, gender is no longer as important as it was, ergo, the new logo - ?AN ARMY OF ONE!?

When, however, facts are kept from elements our own Congress, and that Congress is even bamboozled by any political party, then real questions begin to surface. "AND THESE QUESTIONS, CONSERVATIVE OR LIBERAL IN DESIGN, MUST BE ADDRESSED!" All within politics, each and every one, must be held accountable to the mandates of truth

Add to this the fact that even a ?California Congressman? has (on at least one occasion) taken to swearing at those citizens offering up differing opinions (nothing new here), and you have got to seriously wonder about this (so-called) ?New Order of Things??

Hell, even I myself was once labeled as delusional by an out of control bureaucratic power structure, with it's own case of financially motivated grandiosity! And this by a scant few, deeply entrenched, bureaucratic power brokers, who's attempts at coersion, threat, belittlement and record destruction, was geared to grant to these creatures, the upper hand over my (and your) family's very survival!

?These people were supposed to be our peers, and not our prosecutors or economic hangmen!?

Naturally, not all who enter the public political arena are self-appointed prima donnas. Some are genuine Americans and Patriots, but by damned, there are enough ?Political Mr. Hydes? out there to putrefy the entire barrel of Democracy! And how dare ?ANY? elected official belittle, badger, swear at, or utilize the awesome power or prestige of elected government position to harangue or put down any citizen offering up an honest opinion!!

Worse yet, why do we allow a few soul-sellers to utilize the humungous power base of government to destroy critical records of wrongdoing, or to violate the Nuremberg Codes of Conduct! (opinion)

We, as a nation, have gone to war when such abuses were heaped upon us, our allies, or even upon other lesser world powers. Yet, every now and then, some high-stepper, even a domestic one, shouts aloud - ?SCREW THE LITTLE PEOPLE AND THEIR PERCEIVED RIGHTS!!?

I think that Patrick Henry (1736-1799) put it best when he said: ?GIVE ME (TRUE) LIBERTY, OR GIVE ME DEATH!? In today?s society, however, this ?Founding Father?s? statement could have proven to be fatal to him indeed, especially when a scant few within the information sector, tend to hang together like cankers on the tail-end of vested corruption!

We the People are still the true masters of our nation, our government, and our futures (I THINK). And woe be to he who attempts to permanently place any temporarily elected government employee(s), above the will and mandates of the voting majority, or so decreed those very same Founding Fathers over two centuries ago!?

And most of all - "Beware of the day when any elected government, of any political segment, attempts to eliminate the temporary status of an elected administration, be this Orwellian maneuver orchestrated from any side of the political aisle!?

?No election, or legal result there-of, can be allowed to fall victim to politically motivated lies, agenda, good intentions or ambition!!?

That Congressman with the vicious mouth that I mentioned earlier, even though in this case, political party was inconsequential, had no business or right getting into a slanderous swearing match against a constituent practicing his right to dissent! "Unfortunately (in my own humble opinion), this ?Holier Than Thou Attitude? seems to be becoming more rule than exception these days in politics!!? Not by all, mind you, but then how many does it take?

?Is an unfounded fear of government fast overtaking our respect of a government, that was created by, for and of the people of our United States?? (These are but my questions and opinion)

VERITAS
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Old 05-09-2004, 01:59 PM
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reconeil reconeil is offline
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Default HARDCORE...

Even though quite far from a laughing matter, you must admit it sort-of funny that: "No such similar OUTRAGES" were ever shown for the mistreatment of America's Very Own OVER THE YEARS,....as are currently being quite deceivingly expressed and displayed by; "Many politicians, officials, Human Rights Advocates & Protestors, and even some from The Press/Media",...merely for some minimal mistreatments of some multi-national and foreign murdering scum?

One would normally think that America's Servicemen would always take precedence over any concern whatsoever by Senators and Congressmen for foreign murderers and assassins. But then,...shows what-the-hell-I-know my Friend.

Neil
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Old 05-09-2004, 02:58 PM
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Recon

I can not add to what you just said!!!

VERITAS
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Old 05-09-2004, 04:09 PM
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Post Logic tells us.

No matter the society, even our American society, you have folks with a sadistic bent. Also, during war your mentality can be altered to do those things which aren't normal (like shooting at and killing another human being). Keeping that balance between legitimate war activities and deviant behaviour is walking a tight rope. Senior Officers and Senior NCO's must be responsible for instruction and supervision to prevent the type of behaviour demonstrated in those photos. Yet, every GI that participated in those activities must be court martialed and also their supervisors for not properly providing the supervision necessary to prevent the humiliating treatment of prisoners.

I also know that you can't always hold people's hands and prevent them from doing wrong. But, it seems to me that an assumption was made and wrongly that American wouldn't do things like that.

Keith
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Old 05-09-2004, 04:37 PM
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Keith

The thing that bothers me the most is that these people claimed to have been under orders to pull off these types of interrogations. According to what I saw on the House Floor, the scenario is making some people nervous. It will be interesting to see what kicks loose here. I can not, for the life of me, see any intelligent U.S. Service Personnel pulling off such a crass and illegal act and allowing themselves to be filmed in the process.

Our enemies, in past wars, have pulled off far worse but this act could [and will] cause us [as a Nation] some major grief I fear!

VERITAS
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Old 05-11-2004, 08:15 AM
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Default Inconsistencies

What I'm having difficulty with is trying to reconcile the smiling faces of the miscreant few, with alleged "I was ordered to do this" excuses coming out of the investigations. If all will recall, even photos of our POW's in North Vietnam and the USS Peublo detainees had a very Americanesque way of showing posed pictures, the middle finger. Even if these miscreants were ordered to "stack 'em up," the question remains as to why pose with them? I find it very difficult to accept that any E-1 on up not being able to understand that if an order was illegal, or he/she suspected that it was illegal, reasonable recourse was available.

And if I'm reading the various Conventions correctly, none of them apply to the detainees, since they are not readily identifiable as belonging to any recognized army or government.

There is still a very large rat to be uncovered in this entire mess, and to date, he has been very well obscured.
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Old 05-11-2004, 09:00 AM
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AMEN BROTHER, AMEN!!

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