Fire in Jersy

[39mto39g]

The new had a 3 story fire in Jersy that they were fighting from the outside or so it seemed to the anouncer.
I am the High rise gurue in our department and am a bit of an atourity on the subject.
Although the lay-person may not understand the fire,. I'll explain if anyone wants to know.

Ron

[chilidog]

Ron,
If it was a 3-story fire, which story did you believe?

Just kidding......seriously, I would like to see what you have to say about it.

Chilidog

[39mto39g]

Actually a 3 story building doesn't qualify for a high rise in my town. Its just a two story house that people live in the attic.
The building fire they had wasn't worth saving so if your going to save a little then you risk a little and fight the fire from the outside, just like they did. Highrise fires are fought differently than any other fire in the fire service. If you like I'll splan it.

Ron

[sn-e3]

Actually Ron I would like an explanation. I'm no fire fighter but I'm curious about the difference between a low rise fire and a high rise fire off hand I would think it depends which floor the main fire is on. if say the fifth floor is engulfed I would probly start on the forth floor and soak it down so if the floor gave in it wouldn't start that floor then probly fifth floor and then the top floor with flames and work down. now that is probley wrong but I'll let you explain how to do it and why you do it that way. By the way you guys are under paid no matter how much you make. chris

[chilidog]

Ron,
I know a little bit about your town; I grew up close to 59 between Humble and Cleveland. Yes, I would like for you to "splane" it. Some people may think you misspelled "explain," but "splane" is a valid word in Texas dialect. My wife gets on me all the time for using it. Of course she isn't from Texas, so what does she know?

Chris,
I worked on a few of those high-rise buildings and parking garages in Houston and Dallas back in my construction days. After seeing how those things are built, I would think that if the fifth floor gave way, it would barely slow down when it hit the fourth floor.

Chilidog

[39mto39g]

High rise fire 101.
First you have to start with a regular house, First rule in a house fire is RESCUE always comes first, after all the people are out then you start putting the fire out, The house and stuff in it is just stuff, you can get more stuff.
That being said
High rise fires have to be at least 4 stories tall (the building) if the fire is on the 4th floor than staging would be two floors below, when you prepair to attack the fire, change crews, resupply, etc. One floor below that is the Rehab floor its used to rest crews and detemin if medical treatment is nessesary.
Each floor is its own sector and has an officer in charge of that sector, (example 3 rd floor officer would be, sector 3, thats his call sign on the radio) Each function has a officer in charge like ventilaton, or fire attack, or resorce, If they were on the 2nd floor they would still be what the function is, So If I was sector three and I needed ventilation I say Sector 3 to ventilation, He would then answer and I would send him to where he was needed on the 3rd floor, The person in charge of the fire is outside (to get an overall view) hes called command. This order I just gave to ventilation would now be told to Command, because command also has with him Accountability. Each Engine company has 4 people assigned to it and they have name tags on the accountability board, So if Engine 2 was assigned Ventilation, Engine 2 crew would give accountability there name tags and E2 would be put under Ventilation on the board along with there names, every 30 min we have a par, a par is called for and the officer of each engine company tell if he has all his crew or not, IF not operations stop and a search begins.
Now here is the big difference in Highrise fires over any other kind of fire,
The first arriving engine will determin if there is a need for rescue, approx how many people and what floor they are on, How much fire there is and what floor(s) the fire is on, Now is the breaking point for saving lives in a highrise fire.
If the fire is on , Lets say , the 6th floor, and there are 40 people on the 10 th floor, You have to put aside your basic firefighting instinks(rescue is always first) and NOT go for rescue, even if a person jumps out the 10th floor window and dies. Why, you ask, Because there isn't enough time to rescue all 40 people and fight the fire at the same time, what you will end up doing if you try rescue and fire fighting is killing all 40 and the firefighters that went past the fire to effect the rescue, because now you don't have enough people to contain the fire to the 6th floor and now its on the 6,7,and 8th floor. Soooo The people are on the 10th floor and you send everything you have and put the fire out on the 6th floor, if your people are good they will put out the fire or at least knock it down enough that the people can get out.
This is a pretty hard concept for people to understand and firefighters to do, Sometimes you have to let a few people die to save a lot of people.
It takes a lot of people to fight a highrise fire if there is no rescue.
Command, accountability, staging,rehab (inside and outside) RIT (rapid intervention team) sectors, attack lines, ventilation, water supply, Lobby control, Elevator control, Mutual aid compaines, PIO( public information officer) EMS(ambulance) relief crews, Breathing air supply, Food & Drink, Lighting, traffic routing, Water runoff, There are more but you get the point.
There are a lot of factors that come to play in making that dessision when the first arriving engine reports, And people live or die on the dessisions made in the first few min of operation.
If you live in a city that has high rises, and you go in one, look for exits, sprinkler systems, fire extinguishers, and at least two ways out if all of a sudden the lights went out and the fire alarm sounded.

Ron

[sn-e3]

Thanks Ron I do that every time I stay in a hotel I hate being too high that I can't jump to safty or have a safe way out.

[39mto39g]

When I moved to Sugar Land 23 years ago, The city limit sign said 3,500 people the sign now says 88,000, we have about 10 highrise buildings.
Ron

[chilidog]

Ron,
You moved in about the same time I moved out. Every time I go back over there I am amazed at how much things have changed.

How do you handle Hazmat in a high-rise? Do you have time to look for the book of MSDS sheets when you roll up to a fire? There has to be refrigeration units, HVAC units and cleaning chemicals just to name a few. There's also sanitary sewer and high voltage to deal with. How do you handle these?

Chilidog

[39mto39g]

What you asking is a very complex question, It depends on what your dealing with, Hazmat and highrise don't usually go togeather. But if you had a highrise fire and it became a hazardous material insident you would treat the whole insident as a Hazmat insident and use your protocals for dealing with what ever material is the problem, Yes you would take the time to get MSDS sheets. Electrical problems in any building fire are dangerous, The last highrise fire we had was in a 11 story bank build, I was the first engine company there and we had no rescue to deal with, I had the electric company shut off three huge transformers that feed the entire building, Now the building managment were not real happy that I did this but Im not going to send my people into a fire that they also have to look out for electrical problems,
Rescue and Hazmat are a huge concern. Its hard for a Firefighter not to rush in and help someone, but I don't let the guys do that, The responcabilities for life ,in my crew anyway, are 1st -yourself, 2nd-your team members, and 3rd- the public. Sometimes thats a shitty deal for the public but My crew goes home the next morning and they relie on me to make that happen.
Fighting fire is complex and dangerous even in a single family home, Every perosn in Texas, I think, has a gun and they keep ammo for it, thats most likley in the bedroom closet, So if you have a fire in a bedroom you also have to watch out for gun fire. In a bathroom there are many spray cans of explosive material, Hair spray is very dangerous, livingrooms have large objects hanging from the ceiling and are clutered with stuff, garages have all sorts of things that can kill you if they are burning. I/we just deal with things as they come up, I like to think I can handle ANY situation that comes up, my crew are that good.

Ron