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  #1  
Old 02-25-2004, 06:25 PM
Matt Osborn
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Default Combat troops after 1973


There is a fellow claiming to have joined the Army in 1975 and being
wounded in the knee in Viet Nam. I suggested that he had his dates
wrong, but he and two others insist that the US continued small unit
operations in Vietnam after the Paris treaty.

What do you think?
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  #2  
Old 02-25-2004, 06:29 PM
Richard Rongstad
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Default Re: Combat troops after 1973

Matt Osborn wrote:
>
> There is a fellow claiming to have joined the Army in 1975 and being
> wounded in the knee in Viet Nam. I suggested that he had his dates
> wrong, but he and two others insist that the US continued small unit
> operations in Vietnam after the Paris treaty.
>
> What do you think?


Does recovery of MIA remains count as small unit operations?

But then, I never heard of any of the teams from the Hawaii lab
being wounded recovering remains.
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  #3  
Old 02-25-2004, 07:12 PM
Joe S.
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Default Re: Combat troops after 1973



"Richard Rongstad" wrote in message
news:403D4BF3.3370E0D7@NOSPAMvikiingphoenix.com...
> Matt Osborn wrote:
> >
> > There is a fellow claiming to have joined the Army in 1975 and being
> > wounded in the knee in Viet Nam. I suggested that he had his dates
> > wrong, but he and two others insist that the US continued small unit
> > operations in Vietnam after the Paris treaty.
> >
> > What do you think?

>
> Does recovery of MIA remains count as small unit operations?
>
> But then, I never heard of any of the teams from the Hawaii lab
> being wounded recovering remains.


There was one incident in which an Army captain was killed on MIA recovery
operations.

Quoted from LTC (USAF, Ret) Paul Mather's book, "MIA: Accounting for the
Missing in Southeast Asia:"

QUOTE

. . .

(pp. 22 -23 ) . . . In early December 1973, another JCRC (Joint
Casualty Resolution Center) field activity began. The site of interest, a
helicopter crashsite, was located approximately 20 kilometers southwest of
Saigon in an area of rice and pineapple fields, low trees, and brush. The
rice fields, abandoned for a number of years, had grown up with tall grass
and weeds but were still flooded with knee-deep water and mud. Captain
Richard Rees, the JCRC field team leader on this operation, flew with his
team to the crash site aboard FPJMT-marked (Four-Party Joint Military Team)
helicopters on the morning of December 13.
. . .

On the morning of the third day, 15 December, Rees and his team again
boarded the FPLMT helicopters at Tan Son Nhut airport in Saigon for the
short 15-minute flight back to the crashsite.
. . . The first of three helicopters hovered down to a landing.
Touching down gently, Rees and his men hopped out as the Vietnamese pilot
held the craft stable on the dike. The other two helicopters commenced their
landings adjacent to the first. Suddenly a Communist B-40 rocket-propelled
grenade exploded against the first helicopter, setting it afire and fatally
wounding one of the Vietnamese crewmen. Though hit by shrapnel, the other
two helicopters immediately took to the air to escape a similar fate. With
their means of escape gone, Captain Rees and his unarmed team were at the
mercy of the automatic weapons fire which the Viet Cong ambushers now raked
across the paddy field.

Rees and his men threw themselves down into the knee-deep water,
hoping that the weeds and old paddy dikes would provide some degree of cover
from the ambushers' fire. Captain Rees quickly realized that they were
totally at the mercy of their attackers . . . In a final courageous gamble
to save his team, Rees stood up with his hands raised, and shouted in
Vietnamese to the attackers to stop their firing because his men were
unarmed. His shout was immediately answered by a volley of fire from the
brush at the edge of the paddy, and Captain Rees fell dead in the water.

. . . the Viet Cong quickly withdrew from the scene leaving behind one
American killed and four team members wounded, one Vietnamese killed and
three wounded, and one helicopter destroyed.



END QUOTE

There were two Marines killed in the evacuation of Saigon whose remains were
moved to the morgue at the Adventist Hospital in Saigon and later
repatriated.

Anything's possible -- BUT -- the Commies took over the end of April 1975
and there were certainly no US small unit operations after that. If he
joined in January, he would still have gone through BCT and AIT before being
assigned to Vietnam as a slick sleeve private -- I doubt it.

--

----
Joe S.


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  #4  
Old 02-25-2004, 07:13 PM
patricktee
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Default Re: Combat troops after 1973

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 1923 -0600, Matt Osborn
wrote:

>
>There is a fellow claiming to have joined the Army in 1975 and being
>wounded in the knee in Viet Nam. I suggested that he had his dates
>wrong, but he and two others insist that the US continued small unit
>operations in Vietnam after the Paris treaty.
>
>What do you think?


Marines at the Mayaquez incident comes to mind, but no doggies on that
one or even Delta Force. Does he claim he was Delta? I think he's
bullshitting in any case.
"But now is the time for the younger men to lock in rough encounters,
time for me to yield to the pains of old age. But there was a day I shone among the champions."

Homer, The Illiad, 23.715-719 (800 BC). King Nestor of Pylos.
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  #5  
Old 02-25-2004, 07:59 PM
Doug Reese
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Default Re: Combat troops after 1973

Matt Osborn wrote:
>
>There is a fellow claiming to have joined the Army in 1975 and being
>wounded in the knee in Viet Nam. I suggested that he had his dates
>wrong, but he and two others insist that the US continued small unit
>operations in Vietnam after the Paris treaty.
>
>What do you think?


I think they've been watching too many movies . . . . and believing them.

Doug


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  #6  
Old 02-26-2004, 07:22 AM
CWO4 Dave Mann
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Default Re: Combat troops after 1973


"patricktee" wrote in message
news:8flq305fie9dkbkl1ptdl813dt699oj2u2@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 1923 -0600, Matt Osborn
> wrote:
>
> >
> >There is a fellow claiming to have joined the Army in 1975 and being
> >wounded in the knee in Viet Nam. I suggested that he had his dates
> >wrong, but he and two others insist that the US continued small unit
> >operations in Vietnam after the Paris treaty.
> >
> >What do you think?

>
> Marines at the Mayaquez incident comes to mind, but no doggies on that
> one or even Delta Force. Does he claim he was Delta? I think he's
> bullshitting in any case.
> "But now is the time for the younger men to lock in rough encounters,
> time for me to yield to the pains of old age. But there was a day I shone

among the champions."
>
> Homer, The Illiad, 23.715-719 (800 BC). King Nestor of Pylos.


The Mayaquez incident involved USMC, USN, USAF and US Army personnel. The
Army personnel were from the 7th Radio Research Field Station (7th RRFS) (US
Army Security Agency Field Station Thailand - USM-7). Three enlisted men
were killed, all Voice Intercept Operators (Cambodian/Vietnamese Language)
when a USAF CH54 crashed (Callsign Knife 51). Their identities were kept
classified "confidential" for several years after the incident because it
was believed that revelation of their names and military affiliation would
compromise the classification of the 7th RRFS ... notwithstanding the fact
that the AN/FLR-9 Antenna System ("The Elephant Cage" was visible from space
and is an antenna only used for SIGNINT. There are a number of interesting
web sites up which describe the incident. Recently, the remains of a number
of the men missing from one of the help crashes were repatriated by the
Cambodians. I listened to the intercepted voice traffic during the incident
from the Watch Officer's station inside "The Box" (the SIGINT operations
facility) at the 7th RRFS. The Voice people had patched the US UHF, VHF and
SSB traffic over the stations PA system so everyone could listen. IT was
gruesome. The Knife 51 crash was not "counted" as a casualty of the
incident for many years because it crashed in Thailand and thus the
bureaucrats were able to truthfully say that it didn't crash as a result of
"enemy action". Typical.


HTH, YMMV

Dave


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  #7  
Old 02-26-2004, 08:39 AM
patricktee
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Combat troops after 1973

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 0802 -0600, "CWO4 Dave Mann"
wrote:

>
>"patricktee" wrote in message
>news:8flq305fie9dkbkl1ptdl813dt699oj2u2@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 1923 -0600, Matt Osborn
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >There is a fellow claiming to have joined the Army in 1975 and being
>> >wounded in the knee in Viet Nam. I suggested that he had his dates
>> >wrong, but he and two others insist that the US continued small unit
>> >operations in Vietnam after the Paris treaty.
>> >
>> >What do you think?

>>
>> Marines at the Mayaquez incident comes to mind, but no doggies on that
>> one or even Delta Force. Does he claim he was Delta? I think he's
>> bullshitting in any case.
>> "But now is the time for the younger men to lock in rough encounters,
>> time for me to yield to the pains of old age. But there was a day I shone

>among the champions."
>>
>> Homer, The Illiad, 23.715-719 (800 BC). King Nestor of Pylos.

>
>The Mayaquez incident involved USMC, USN, USAF and US Army personnel. The
>Army personnel were from the 7th Radio Research Field Station (7th RRFS) (US
>Army Security Agency Field Station Thailand - USM-7). Three enlisted men
>were killed, all Voice Intercept Operators (Cambodian/Vietnamese Language)
>when a USAF CH54 crashed (Callsign Knife 51). Their identities were kept
>classified "confidential" for several years after the incident because it
>was believed that revelation of their names and military affiliation would
>compromise the classification of the 7th RRFS ... notwithstanding the fact
>that the AN/FLR-9 Antenna System ("The Elephant Cage" was visible from space
>and is an antenna only used for SIGNINT. There are a number of interesting
>web sites up which describe the incident. Recently, the remains of a number
>of the men missing from one of the help crashes were repatriated by the
>Cambodians. I listened to the intercepted voice traffic during the incident
>from the Watch Officer's station inside "The Box" (the SIGINT operations
>facility) at the 7th RRFS. The Voice people had patched the US UHF, VHF and
>SSB traffic over the stations PA system so everyone could listen. IT was
>gruesome. The Knife 51 crash was not "counted" as a casualty of the
>incident for many years because it crashed in Thailand and thus the
>bureaucrats were able to truthfully say that it didn't crash as a result of
>"enemy action". Typical.
>
>
>HTH, YMMV
>
>Dave
>

I didn't mean to slight anyone that was involved. I do remember
reading an article on the net or something about it quite a while back
but I guess it didn't register.

thanks
"But now is the time for the younger men to lock in rough encounters,
time for me to yield to the pains of old age. But there was a day I shone among the champions."

Homer, The Illiad, 23.715-719 (800 BC). King Nestor of Pylos.
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  #8  
Old 02-26-2004, 06:08 PM
Ted Gittinger
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Default Re: Combat troops after 1973


"Matt Osborn" wrote in message
news:cjiq305gksg7ab0loa381hkgjbohfgdlis@4ax.com...
>
> There is a fellow claiming to have joined the Army in 1975 and being
> wounded in the knee in Viet Nam. I suggested that he had his dates
> wrong, but he and two others insist that the US continued small unit
> operations in Vietnam after the Paris treaty.
>
> What do you think?


I think that if he joined the army in 1975, and got to Vietnam before Saigon
fell, he was a fast-moving sunken ditch.

ted


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  #9  
Old 02-26-2004, 09:42 PM
The Combat Kid
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Combat troops after 1973

References:
Posted by: Matt Osborn

>
>There is a fellow claiming to have joined the Army in 1975 and being
>wounded in the knee in Viet Nam. I suggested that he had his dates
>wrong, but he and two others insist that the US continued small unit
>operations in Vietnam after the Paris treaty.
>
>What do you think?


Yes. You'd see them all over. We even had KIA in '74, not? I saw a
dead round eye in an ambulance that picked me up hitch hiking near
Phan Rang in about mid '74 or so... I spoze he coulda been a spook.
Cam Rhan was still very occupied and the place was crawling with
contractors... and various vultures like reporters.

Jones

Jones
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  #10  
Old 02-27-2004, 01:40 PM
George Moore
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Combat troops after 1973

"CWO4 Dave Mann" wrote in message news:...
> "patricktee" wrote in message
> news:8flq305fie9dkbkl1ptdl813dt699oj2u2@4ax.com...
> > On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 1923 -0600, Matt Osborn
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >There is a fellow claiming to have joined the Army in 1975 and being
> > >wounded in the knee in Viet Nam. I suggested that he had his dates
> > >wrong, but he and two others insist that the US continued small unit
> > >operations in Vietnam after the Paris treaty.
> > >
> > >What do you think?

> >
> > Marines at the Mayaquez incident comes to mind, but no doggies on that
> > one or even Delta Force. Does he claim he was Delta? I think he's
> > bullshitting in any case.
> > "But now is the time for the younger men to lock in rough encounters,
> > time for me to yield to the pains of old age. But there was a day I shone

> among the champions."
> >
> > Homer, The Illiad, 23.715-719 (800 BC). King Nestor of Pylos.

>
> The Mayaquez incident involved USMC, USN, USAF and US Army personnel. The
> Army personnel were from the 7th Radio Research Field Station (7th RRFS) (US
> Army Security Agency Field Station Thailand - USM-7). Three enlisted men
> were killed, all Voice Intercept Operators (Cambodian/Vietnamese Language)
> when a USAF CH54 crashed (Callsign Knife 51). Their identities were kept
> classified "confidential" for several years after the incident because it
> was believed that revelation of their names and military affiliation would
> compromise the classification of the 7th RRFS ... notwithstanding the fact
> that the AN/FLR-9 Antenna System ("The Elephant Cage" was visible from space
> and is an antenna only used for SIGNINT. There are a number of interesting
> web sites up which describe the incident. Recently, the remains of a number
> of the men missing from one of the help crashes were repatriated by the
> Cambodians. I listened to the intercepted voice traffic during the incident
> from the Watch Officer's station inside "The Box" (the SIGINT operations
> facility) at the 7th RRFS. The Voice people had patched the US UHF, VHF and
> SSB traffic over the stations PA system so everyone could listen. IT was
> gruesome. The Knife 51 crash was not "counted" as a casualty of the
> incident for many years because it crashed in Thailand and thus the
> bureaucrats were able to truthfully say that it didn't crash as a result of
> "enemy action". Typical.
>
>
> HTH, YMMV
>
> Dave


Some links about what Koh Tang Island in Cambodia looks like today are on

http://rectravel.com/shv/kohtang.htm
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