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  #1  
Old 06-10-2003, 10:05 AM
bigblackbravo bigblackbravo is offline
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Default Geneva Convention-.50 cal-

Does it say in the convention that .50 cals are illegal against personel?? and if so when was it put in. i would think sometime after WW2. again me and my dad arguing on why .50 cals should be illegal against personel, he says theres no reason on why it shoudl take a bullet used to destroy tanks, to be used to bring down a human being. my reply is somewhat complicated and probably too critical.
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Old 06-10-2003, 12:33 PM
Doc.2/47
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God bless the old M2!! One of the oldest and most effective weapons in Army inventory.Don't believe it's been mentioned in any of the conventions.Don't think anybody we've fought since WWII signed either the Geneva or Haig conventions anyway.

Is it posible that someone believes that death by flamethrower,napalm,bayonett,entrenching tool or teeth is somehow more "humane" than death by .50cal. ?

BTW the .50 is not capable of handling more than light armor.Won't do much with a tank.
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Old 06-10-2003, 01:48 PM
bigblackbravo bigblackbravo is offline
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Thanks Doc, and i ment light armor not tanks, but the real question was there is a .50 cal sniper rifle called the Barret .50 cal and is used on light armor, but ive seen cases in which SpecOps and other special forces have used it against personel and my dad said i was mistaken becasue in the convention it states you cant use the rifle on humans. you have a good point but i guess some politicians out there who belive if they are going to start wars they might as well make them "clean" ones. but i guess today you can rule out bayonet, teeth and entreching tool because theres no way you can get within a mile of any of our troops with out the whole army lookin at you, or some sniper with his scope on you, or a pilot in the cockpit of an F-16 ready to squezze the trigger to drop a 5,000 pound laser guided bomb on you.
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Old 06-10-2003, 04:11 PM
Andy Andy is offline
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Lightbulb .50 cal

It was made illegal to use as an anti-personal weapon however I don't know if it was prior to or just after WWII. Also remember the same set of laws make hollow point bullets, subs, hot air balloons and some types of bi-planes illegal.
Screw the politicians, the .50, my Ma Duce, is the best anti-personal weapon in the world. Would not be making this post if it hadn't of been for John Moses Browning (it's inventor).

Stay healthy,
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Old 06-10-2003, 08:56 PM
1IDVET 1IDVET is offline
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The Geneva convention does not specifically mention the .50 Caliber Machine Gun.
As a matter of fact, it is quite often used by tankers for anti-personnel on gunnery ranges.
Also, the target sheet for machine guns is silouettes of personnel.


Features: The Browning M2 .50 Caliber Machine Gun, Heavy barrel is an automatic, recoil operated, air-cooled machine gun with adjustable headspace and is crew transportable with limited amounts of ammunition over short distances. By repositioning some of the component parts, ammunition may be fed from either the left or right side. A disintegrating metallic link-belt is used to feed the ammunition into the weapon. This gun has a back plate with spade grips, trigger, and bolt latch release. This gun may be mounted on ground mounts and most vehicles as an anti-personnel and anti-aircraft weapon. The gun is equipped with leaf-type rear sight, flash suppressor and a spare barrel assembly. Associated components are the M63 antiaircraft mount and the M3 tripod mount.
USMC Fact File

Classification. The eight types of ammunition are used for the following purposes.

(1) Ball. For use in marksmanship training, and against personnel and light material targets.

(2) Tracer. To aid in observing fire. Secondary purposes are for incendiary effect and for signalling.

(3) Armor-piercing. For use against armored aircraft and lightly armored vehicles, concrete shelters, and other bullet-resisting targets.

(4) Incendiary. For incendiary effect, especially against aircraft.

(5) Armor-piercing-incendiary. For combined armor-piercing and incendiary effect.

(6) Armor-piercing-incendiary-tracer. For combined armor-piercing and incendiary effect, with the additional tracer feature.

(7) Blank. For simulated fire (contains no bullet).

(8) High-pressure test. For use only in proof firing of weapons and barrels.

(9) Dummy. For training (completely inert).

US Army FM 23-65
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Old 06-10-2003, 09:03 PM
1IDVET 1IDVET is offline
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Range Layout
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Old 06-10-2003, 09:42 PM
bigblackbravo bigblackbravo is offline
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thanks 1IDvet that helps.
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Old 06-10-2003, 11:43 PM
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bbb-

Humane weapons
Clean wars

Both of these are contradictions in terms.

Hi-tech weapons are truly great to have on your side.But they can't occupy territory and as long as it is necessary for an infantryman to stand on a given piece of ground-for either offensive or defensive purposes-there will be close encounters of the fatal kind.High tech detection equipment does wonders but it can't see everywhere all the time and SOMEBODY has to sweep that patch of woods,kick in that door,or check out that tunnel or bunker.Guess who.It is true that the use of hi-tech devises makes close encounters less likely in total number but it should also be remembered that the total number of troops used for a given type of operation has also been greatly reduced.That being the case I'd have to bet that a particular soldiers odds of ending in a close and personal situation haven't changed much in many years.Also be willing to bet that soldiers will still be killing each other with knives,table legs,and entrenching tools long after the A-bomb has been forgotten.
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Old 06-11-2003, 06:59 AM
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reconeil reconeil is offline
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Default BBBravo...

Never heard anything about the use .50 calibers being outlawed against personnel. However, and until Vietnam movies, it was always my understanding that using shotguns in combat was A NO-NO. Anyone here know anything about that?

Neil :cl:

P.S. Regarding .50 cal. sniper rifles, that's usually the case when extreme long range shooting is required. 30 cals, 7mm and such only have maximum effective ranges out to about 750 meters. Wheras A 50's maximum effective range is twice that OR BETTER.
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Old 06-11-2003, 07:10 AM
1IDVET 1IDVET is offline
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I didn't see anything on that one either Neil.
The Army still has shotguns in the inventory, mostly MP units have them. Great for use around EPWs.

The 12-gauge shotgun is a manually operated (pump), repeating shotgun with a seven-round tubular magazine and a modified choke barrel. It is equipped with a bayonet stud, sling swivels and a standard length military stock. This special-purpose weapon is used for guard duty, prisoner supervision, local security, riot control and any situation that might require the use of weapons of limited range and penetration but maximum stopping power.
Various models of shotguns have been in service use since 1901. The current inventory consists of three different 12 gauge shotgun models: the Remington 870, Winchester 1200 and Mossberg 590.

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