Helicopters

[Bill Farnie]

Andy

I think the problem that men experienced with the 101st was when the 1st Brigade was the only unit in Vietnam. From July 1965 until December 1967, when the rest of the division arrived in country, the 1st Brigade was under operational control of many other divisions or Corp commands and earned the nickname the ?Fire Brigade? for either the entire brigade or regiments of it saw action in all the CTZ?s at one time or another. They were sent where MACV thought they were needed and Tom can tell you more about that. When I joined the 101st in September 1968 the division had been in country together for almost a year, although the 3rd Brigade was in III Corp when I got to my company, and it had become an Airmobile division which meant that we had our own air assets for re-supply to anything else you can think of brought to the field by copter. I never experienced a problem with re-supply or mail unless the weather was just too bad to fly in. Since the division HHC handled everything for us, we didn?t have those problems like others have talked about because for the most part, the 101st had Opcon of its own brigades which included the aviation units. Officers, well they?re a different story although most of the line officers I had were o.k.

[PHO127]

While in the 25th they kept records and every so often I would get an Air Medal. I flew almost every day, 1st and last light low VR. All CA's and fired any and all LZ preps. Fired most contact fire missions from the air. I think I have 15 air medals. 2 V devices. Crashed 3, one loach, 2 slicks. Walked/crawled away from them all
1 down to ground fire, 1 down to mechanical and 1 down to stupidity. Saw lot of them go down. Several down to booby traps on LZs. Have come back in choppers several times with more holes than we left with. Have ridden in OH6s, OH13s, OH23s, OH58s, UH23s, CH39s, CH43s, CH47s. Have Jumped from UH23s, CH39s and 43s.

[exlrrp]

Originally posted by Andy Some African scrawled on the wall of a pyramid, about 4,000 years ago, the words, ?To your own self be true?. Pretty interesting words. If you don?t mind the guy your looking at in the mirror when you shave, your doing ok.

However, it has seemed to me, for a few years now, the 101st had some pretty crappy staff officers in Vietnam. Can?t imagine what took up so much of their time that you and no doubt many others didn?t get what you deserved. A CIB took about 35 years to get because of a 101st ?oversight?? Have no idea why you didn?t get other decorations you no doubt Earned, it sucks.

About the only thing I can think of as obscene as you not getting your decorations is a couple of pilots who were forever putting each other in for Silver Stars when they didn?t do anything to deserve them.

Stay healthy,
Andy

Andy:
"However, it has seemed to me, for a few years now, the 101st had some pretty crappy staff officers in Vietnam."
This thought also crossed my mind. Self and Tom (friscokid) haven't had a good ol fashion 101st grunt bitchfest in a while so I'll just jot down some salient details. like:
They gave us a clean change of clothes at least once a month whether we needed it or not.
They'd try to get us a hot meal about the same frequency--on at least one occasion it was sent back and we ate C's, it was that bad.
About every other week, theyd bring out a duffle bag with beer and soda--for a whole company--this would be warm. You'd get 2 beers and one soda
Much of the C rations had Korean War dates stamped on them.
Our mail was looted continuously, they had investigations about this. They wouldn't bring packages out to the field so they could sit there in that rear for up to 6 weeks. My mom numbered the letters, I received less than half of them and very few of the many packages she sent. She subscribed to Playboy and the SF Chronicle for me--I never got one.
All the personal items we put into company storage when we went into the field were looted and robbed- When I got to the rear (Phan Rang) they told me that everybodys stuff was looted and stolen--they didn't even ask my name.I walked out of the 101st with nothing but the clothes on my back (and a .45 in my pocket) Thats why they called the 101st: Pissed Off Homeless People With Guns!
In the 6 months I was there I had 6 different platoon leaders in the same platoon. 3 of these were NCOs. I had 2 different company COs during this time. This was insane!! How did they expect any continuity of command at all?? No wonder nobody got any medals and its a wonder we got anything done at all with this kind of revolving door command.
The bravest thing I ever saw in my life was a guy--John Imrie-- who ran out to save a comrade and was killed doing so. This was talked about in that platoon for a long time so I can assume the brass knew about it. Us grunts didn't know anything about putting people in for medals, they never taught us about that. They not only didn't give him a medal at all, other than a PH, THEY DIDN"T GIVE HIM A CIB!! Or ANY OTHER MEDAL!! No Bronze Star meritorious, no nothing!! He came home in a box with a Purple Heart, that was it. I got this from his sisterinlaw, who contacted me when I posted info on his death on The Virtual Wall. I felt SOMEBODY had to acknowledge this heroism and it was a real shame on the Army that they didn't (Airborne, John!!)
If a real hero like that didn't get a CIB it made me feel better about their not giving me one. I never claim to be brave, I only claim to have been there.
Its not the medal, its what it stands for.

Stay good
James

[1CAVCCO15MED]

Then you have my unit where the 1st Sgt was especially drunk during one mortar attack and instead of heading for the bunker he was out staggering around cursing us to get in our bunkers where we were already. He got an ARCOM with a V for that heroic action. It broke us up, we never knew it came with a V. We were joking at least he didn't get a National Defense with a V.

[exlrrp]

Originally posted by 1CAVCCO15MED Then you have my unit where the 1st Sgt was especially drunk during one mortar attack and instead of heading for the bunker he was out staggering around cursing us to get in our bunkers where we were already. He got an ARCOM with a V for that heroic action. It broke us up, we never knew it came with a V. We were joking at least he didn't get a National Defense with a V.

Fred
While in the lrrps, one time I was so Out of it I slept through a mortar and rocket attack in Pleiku that completely destroyed a neighboring barracks, fortunatley unoccupied. They told me about it the next morning and I saw the barracks--splinters!
Happy Just To Be Alive!
Stay good
James

[frisco-kid]

pretty much the way James says it. And remember, he came almost a year after I got there. It wasn't getting WORSE, it was getting BETTER.
When they would finally get us some new fatigues, the platoon sergeants would dole them out, based on who needed them the worst. I've had jungle boots so bad, the rotted leather was cracked through across the top.
True story about the C's being old, but often still better than the chow they would send out to us.
You'd be lucky to get 2 beers a week and it was always hot, and almost always Black Label in rusty cans. The helicoptor crew chiefs would practically put armed guards on the CO2 fire extinguishers so we wouldn't steal them to cool the beer and sodas .
I've gone 2wks. without mail. Westmoreland visited us in the field one time. As he walked amongst the ranks, he stopped and asked my bro, Cos, if he's been getting his mail okay. "I haven't had mail in 2wks., Sir." The next day EVERYBODY had mail,......lots of mail . Like James, I know I didn't get all my mail.
I left Phan Rang to be sent to my company up-country in JUL66. My company didn't get back there until FEB67. Slept on the ground the whole time. The scout dogs assigned to us from time to time lived better than we did.
Unlike James, I felt we had pretty good line officers over-all. We did have a couple of duds, but they didn't last long. I think we had good senior NCO's, too. Many of them were professional soldiers with alot of combat experience. Our 1st Sgt. spent alot of time in the field with us.
It's already been discussed how stingy and unorganized the 101st was about medals. When it was just the 1st Bde. anyway. The Air Medals are a prime example. I saw many acts of bravery that went totally unrecognized. It was some tough SOB's that got spit out at the other end of a tour with the 101st back then.
But for all that,........it was still better than a tour with the 173rd .

As bad as it was at times though, I've always been proud to have served with the 101st. We were handed some of the toughest jobs at that time of the war, in some of the toughest parts of the country, and did them. That's why Westmoreland always used us a s a Reactionary Force; the Fire Brigade. I've always felt that we were the best of the U.S. paratroopers of the time.

[rotorwash]

After seeing the figures on sorties flown, aircraft and crews lost, etc, I went back through some of our company records just to see what I could find that might be of interest. Our company was in country from April 66 until Nov 71. TOE strength in aircraft was 20 slicks and 8 gunships. The company went through a total of 164 aircraft during its existence. One slick was shot down with only one hour of flight time on it. A gunship was shot down before it had logged its first complete hour. On the other hand, a slick flew 3,300 hours before it wore out. One gunship stayed for 1,700 hours.

Combat losses (people) represented 51% of our casualties. Losses from mechanical failure 25%. A catagory probably lumped in with mechanical failure that I could isolate was "pilot error," this accounted for 17%. The rest, 9%, were in a catagory that I call "__it happens," where everyone is doing everything right, the aircraft is functioning perfectly and still something happens, like a sudden gust off a pinacle or something. These figures do not include passengers, only our company people.

Interestingly enough, we only had people killed in 7 combat shoot downs. Most of our KIA's occurred when one or two members of the crew were shot and the aircraft remained flyable.
Losses from mechanical failure averaged two fatalities per accident where the aircraft was a total loss. Pilot error was the most costly, averaging 4 fatalities per total loss, in other words the guy killed his entire crew.

Huey's were tough, resilient aircraft. Many of our ships were shot
up, a few down, were repaired and lived to fly another day.

On the subject of air medals, it was not a gimme. It was originally established in WW II and earning it required 25 combat missions or 100 logistical missions. In Viet Nam, the criteria was changed for Army (and I think Marine) helicopter aviators because a helicopter could fly six or eight missions a day. The new criteria was 25 combat hours, 100 logistical hours, and a new catagory was added, 50 command and control hours, because it was not quite combat but it certainly was more dangerous then ash and trash. The records originated two places, the aircraft logbook or the company morning report in the case of an infantry company flying a combat assault. In the Air Cav TOE units, the infantry was part of the crew of a particular ship (or vice-versa, the aircraft and crew were part of the infantry squad), just like APC's in a mech inf unit. The first airmedal was awarded in country because many guys quit flying after getting it. Any further awards were in oak leaf clusters and usually were not awarded until a person left Viet Nam. I got my first one within three weeks of arriving in country. Two years after I got back to the states I was called in front of the unit and presented my second air medal with 33 oak leaf clusters. The medal is too small for that many clusters so the number "33" is attached to the ribbon. If your company did not keep track of the time you spent in the air for combat assaults, there is no record for you to go back to. A combat assault could easily last an hour from take off to exit.

Rotorwash

[frisco-kid]

All very interesting and answers alot of questions. 33 Oak Leaf Clusters! Jaysus, did ya spend anytime at all on the ground ?

Thanks for all you did, Bro. We always had alot of respect for you guys. I witnessed several acts of true heroism by you guys while keeping Charlie from running too far up our asses and, and this is what's going to get alot of you guys into Heaven, getting our wounded out at great risk to yourselves and your choppers.

[SuperScout]

When I got to the 3rd Platoon, Co. B, 2-47 Inf (Mech), my rto was the font of all knowledge, like how many sorties each guy in the platoon already had. Despite the fact that we were mech, we still did more than our share of air assaults, and there wass some competition to see who could get to the required number of one-way flights first. Good ol' Campy, he kept good records! Wound up with 2 AM's, one per tour.

Helicopter story: two days after Tet, Iwas at the TOC getting the next day's order, and saw the Bn Cdr's OH23 (called by some as "Hiller the Killer") take off for a quick flight to Bearcat. At about 500', I heard the engine rev way beyond the normal rpm, saw a puff of smoke, and the the autorotation began. I commandeered the Re-up Sgt's jeep, and bounded over hill and dale to get to the hard landing sight, to find the tail boom broken almost completely off, the pilot still strapped in, and the Old Man trying to get his shoulder straps undone. My evil twin stepped into the picture, and grabbed the Old Man, and flung him out of the left side like a sack of potatoes! LTC John Tower was a 5'5" Bostonian Bantam Rooster, who played bridge, volleyball and war with the same intensity. He was shot down twice during Tet, only to demand another helicopter, so he could command his troops. We had a love/hate relationship, but he was the best commander I ever had - totally tactically sound, with integrity in copious amounts.

He recovered quite quickly from being tossed into the dirt, brushed himself off, and ordered me to take him and his pilot back to the TOC without so much as a thank you! Really think he was pissed at me for the pleasure I received from pitching his little ass in the dirt!

[frisco-kid]

Great story, Brice. You're a lucky man. Not every soldier that gets the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to manhandle one of his commanding officers and get away with it .