News: VA Orders Veterans to Stop Flying the American Flag Upside Down

[SuperScout]

(a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.

This is precisely the point the veterans are trying to make: they feel, with valid justification, that their property IS in extreme danger. Into that mix are rampant and stupid home-owner association rules, that threaten to take a Marine veteran's car, ever-rising property taxes that threaten people on fixed-incomes, confiscatory increases in costs of living brought about by idiotic federal legislation, uncontrolled illegal immigration...... how many more do you need?

[82Rigger]

Feel free to list as many as you wish.

I agree with you on all of them.

NONE of them are FIRST-RESPONDER emergencies and NONE of them call for the U.S. flag to be flown upside down.

You wanna fly the flag upside down?

Then you be on a sinking ship surrounded by sharks.

You wanna "rally around" an upside down American flag?

Then you move to Pakistan or France.

[SuperScout]

And just where in that ordinance does it say it must be a "... first-responder" type of scenario? It doesn't. Maybe the veterans who expressed their 1st Amendment rights see the "peril" differently than you do. If their property is in extreme danger of being taxed out from under them, that ought to qualify by even the broadest of interpretations.

If I'm ever surrounded by sharks, all start making shark bait by killing as many as I can, and let them feed on themselves.

[82Rigger]

The United States Code was written by intelligent people.

During its writing great care was taken to insure that it is easily understood
even by Americans with below average education.

A damn sixth-grader can look at the words "dire distress", "instances", and "extreme danger" and know EXACTLY what type of emergency that is.

If the goddam flag-abusers can't behave like Americans then let them move somewhere else.

Better yet, send them over here.

I will provide them with an "instance" of "dire distress" to fly their upside down flag over.

Fly the flag RIGHT.

[SuperScout]

And have you taken the same profane approach to those who have burned the flag?

I'll wager that if the issue of 'flying the flag in an inverted manner' were ever brought before a civil court of law, the defendant would successfully argue that it is a simple means of self-expression as protected by the First Amendment. Since the Court has already held that burning the flag is protected under said amendment, then by simple extrapolation holding it upsidedown is certainly no worse. In fact, I'll stick $1000 on that bet.

Frankly, I don't hold the writers of the US Code in such high regard. These are the same types of bureaucrats who have written the US Tax Code, now over a zillion pages, written OSHA regulations that have bankrupted certain businesses, and exist to provide job security for more assholes than I can count. The US Code is challenged everyday, and frequently overturned by our court system. It is not Holy Writ.

[82Rigger]

Flag abuse is FLAG ABUSE.

Burning or any other kind.

Barack Obama failing to show respect during the Pledge of Allegiance is FLAG ABUSE.

George W. Bush walking on the flag at the WTC site is FLAG ABUSE.

Does that answer your question?

Your level of regard for the U.S. Code surprises me not in the least.

Oh, by the way,

Your solution for the sinking ship/shark problem would work...up to the moment YOU enter the water.

You shoulda gone with the upside-down flag.

[ga.windbreak]

With all due respect it seems as if the VA was more in the wrong than the Vets IMHO according to the photos shown. They, the VA, need to read (k)The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

If, as the picture shows, the flag was as shown for several many months the VA is the disrespectful one here!

[SuperScout]

Precisely.

[STYCK]

Got this tthis AM from a Buddy on a VIGILANTE site


http://www.veteranstoday.com/article7691.html


http://www.veteranstoday.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=7729

http://www.veteranstoday.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=7692

[darrels joy]

Vets Protest VA Lease Policy

Written by Andres Chavez, Sun Contributing Writer

Wednesday, 17 June 2009

In a move reminiscent of the anti-war protests of the '60s, a group of veterans flew a "Distress Call", the American flag upside down, Sunday in front of the Veterans Administration's West Los Angeles campus to protest the VA's policy of leasing VA land to non veteran groups. The West L. A. and Sepulveda Campuses have plans in place to allow private development of VA land. So does the VA facility in Chicago. The vets see this as part of a national VA land giveaway trend which increases their sense of alarm. "Our Distress Call is not just for West LA and Sepulveda VA, but all across America," said Robert Rosebrock, a driving force behind the VA demonstrations. Rosebrock and his group of veterans, including many from Valley, have been protesting in front of the VA for 65 weeks in a row. Flying the flag upside down was an extreme step for this group of veterans, but they did it in accordance with the U.S. Flag Code, Title 36, U.S.C., Chapter 10, as amended by P. L. 344, 94th Congress, approved July 7, 1976, and under 176, (a) "The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property." According to Rosebrock, "We had our American flags hanging upside down not out of disrespect for 'Old Glory,' but as an outcry that the sovereign and sacred land at the Los Angeles National Home continues to be stolen away by the 'domestic enemy' of political cronyism and special interest groups." The West L. A. facility already has a long history of doling out VA land to private interests. The VA has already leased land to a very wealthy private school, storage space to a car rental company and allowed private entertainment companies to run the two theaters located on VA land. At the Sepulveda campus in Mission Hills there are plans to have two buildings developed by private firms into housing units. The vets contend it could be better and more cheaply, used as medical facilities. In Chicago, the VA proposes "transferring" nearly 85 acres of Veterans' land at the North Chicago VA Medical Center to a university. As previously reported in the San Fernando Sun/El Sol, the veterans are struggling with the VA over the use of two buildings on the Sepulveda Campus. The VA has contracted two private developers to turn the buildings into housing units for veterans, with assurances that only veterans will be considered. Assurances aren't believed by the veterans opposing the deal. They feel that the buildings should be refurbished for their original purpose: to provide medical care for veterans. The vets point out that with some 200,000 vets living in the Valley and more wounded coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan, medical treatment facilities would be the best and most cost effective use for the two buildings. The vets point to the West L.A. facility as an example of what they don't want. The vets accuse the VA of violating the law and the original purpose deed which gave the land to the VA. They point to the Congressional Act of 1887, which states "That all honorably discharged soldiers and sailors who served in the regular and volunteer forces of the United States, and who are disabled by disease, wounds, or otherwise, and who have no adequate means of support, and by reason of such disability are incapable of earning their living, shall be entitled to be admitted to said home for disabled volunteer soldiers." Rosebrock also cites the Land Grant Deed of March 3, 1888 which gave the land in order "to be permanently maintained as a National Home for Disabled Volunteer Soldiers." Rosebrock contends that "there are an estimated 20,000 homeless Veterans in Los Angeles, yet this is their rightful 'Home' in accordance with the Congressional Act of 1887 and Deed of 1888." The West L. A. Campus of the Veterans Administration is located in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Los Angeles, with Westwood and the UCLA campus on one side and Brentwood on the other, which makes the VA land extremely valuable. The vets are accusing the VA of flagrant and egregious misuse and abuse of Veterans land. "There's no transparency or accountability of the money generated from Enhanced Use Leases between the VA and tenants," Rosebrock stated. The VA entered into a no-bid, rentfree agreement with a neighboring wealthy homeowners group for a $1 billion parcel of Veteran's land to build a public park. The VA leased 21 acres of Veterans land to one of the wealthiest private schools in the nation at $1,500 per acre "for an athletic field that is off limits to Veterans," according to Rosebrock. The VA has also leased about 10 acres of Veterans land to Enterprise Car Rental for vehicle storage. The only two theaters on Veterans land have been leased to a non-Veteran, Hollywood entertainment group for a "community cultural center" for the benefit of wealthy neighboring communities. The VA gave a neighboring homeowner group $1 million to help build a wrought iron fence to beautify the entryway into their community of Brentwood. At the same time, the vets say, Veterans' healthcare services and facilities continue to go underfunded. In addition, the VA recently entered into an agreement for a "celebrity carnival and picnic fund raiser" with a fee of $1,000 per person and the fund raising money went to AIDS and not Veterans. In what the vets considered adding insult to injury, the VA gave permission to a neighboring homeowner group to engrave in stone on Veterans property, "Beauty, Honor, County". As far as the vets were concerned, "That denigrated our Military creed of 'Duty, Honor, Country,' because it was the group's mission to beautify the entryway into their wealthy community," Rosebrock stated. Another development the vets view with alarm, is the announcement by the Department of Veterans Affairs that it plans to transfer 85.4 acres of land from the North Chicago VA Medical Center to the Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science. The vets want the land giveaway to stop and are contacting other vets to alert them. They want "the general public to learn and know the real truth about what is going on with Veteran's land," Rosebrock stated, and to mobilize public support to pressure the VA. It is a measure of their determination that this weekend will make 66 Sundays that they've demonstrated in front of the VA in West L.A.

Last Updated ( Thursday, 18 June 2009 )

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