Would like your opinions on this article.

[darrels joy]

General Moore is an optimist. The only people that I've ever known who love the warrior & hate the war are those who LOVE the warrior
Joy

Check this out

1. Students will be graded solely on the basis of their reasoned answers and appropriate knowledge of the subjects and disciplines they study, not on the basis of their political or religious beliefs.


2. Curricula and reading lists in the humanities and social sciences should reflect the uncertainty and unsettled character of all human knowledge in these areas by providing students with dissenting sources and viewpoints where appropriate. While teachers are and should be free to pursue their own findings and perspectives in presenting their views, they should consider and make their students aware of other viewpoints. Academic disciplines should welcome a diversity of approaches to unsettled questions.


3. Exposing students to the spectrum of significant scholarly viewpoints on the subjects examined in their courses is a major responsibility of faculty. Faculty will not use their courses for the purpose of political, ideological, religious or anti-religious indoctrination.
http://www.studentsforacademicfreedom.org/

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[b3196]

Optimists make good warriors
Bob K

[Jerry D]

Students for Academic Freedom sounds like a good Idea to Me too

[MontanaKid]

I say, "thank God for the discussion!"

The University of Montana here has had its share of war protests, now and back during Vietnam. Younger college kids these days, as in our day, are out of home for the first time, feeling their oats and questioning authority. But college has changed since the 60s. More women for one, it is no longer necessary for young men to enroll in college just to escape the draft. But also the students are much older, looking for new careers, etc. There's even plenty our age.

So I think what is described in the article is not typical of college campuses. I know plenty of Iraq vets here and they don't face near the stigma we had.

Here in Missoula, we even elected one of them to the state legislature from a district near the university, Kevin Facey.

Soldier's views on this war vary just as in our day, in spite of the fact that today's soldiers are all volunteers. I've heard a lot of opinion from different vets. They run the gament. My son is a professional soldier, up for E7 and filling an E7 slot as his brigade's NCOIC Operations. He was in Iraq early with the 1st Armored Division in 2003-2004. I don't think it's my place to speak for him, and I know he is a consumate professional who will implent orders and lead his troops as ordered, that's why they made him OPs SGT, but his views on this war and the administartion running it are mixed.

Generally, I witness respect for the young men and women on campus who have served. It is a different day than 35 years ago.

[SuperScout]

Perhaps a legitimate question needs to be raised as to the political stripe of those who make the military most unwelcome. Who are those who pretend to be the most open-minded, and yet demonstrate most clearly that they are bigoted and narrow-minded hypocrites? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm?

[MontanaKid]

Perhaps...

[Seascamp]

It?s the usual Liberal University hypocrisy where we get the ?do as I say, not as I do? deal. Discriminating against minorities is just fine so long as the Liberals Administrators and Profs are calling the shots and anointing who the ?ditto heads? are. If students get into the discrimination trip, get mouthy and all, then that is one hell of a resume and character builder, sure enough. But with a fair wind and following sea, they may land good jobs with the Dean or Durbin camp and go right to the top (or bottom); gender dependent. The only ones I feel sorry for are the dupe students that get so stupid as to get right in the face of a Vet student, ouch!!! That?s going to hurt I bet.

Besides that, the Iraq Vet lads I know may be a bit too sophisticated for that University mob anyway. Right now they are more into Moose Drool beer, trick cars and fast women. Maybe later they?ll settle in and go up the U, sign up, and then see who wants to get in their face and for what reason. I?d like to buy a ticket to that event because those Vet boys are sooooo very, very, sensitive and may need some kind words and warm fuzzy hugs so they don?t fall apart, eh.

Scamp

[exlrrp]

Originally posted by MontanaKid I say, "thank God for the discussion!"

The University of Montana here has had its share of war protests, now and back during Vietnam. Younger college kids these days, as in our day, are out of home for the first time, feeling their oats and questioning authority. But college has changed since the 60s. More women for one, it is no longer necessary for young men to enroll in college just to escape the draft. But also the students are much older, looking for new careers, etc. There's even plenty our age.

So I think what is described in the article is not typical of college campuses. I know plenty of Iraq vets here and they don't face near the stigma we had.

Here in Missoula, we even elected one of them to the state legislature from a district near the university, Kevin Facey.

Soldier's views on this war vary just as in our day, in spite of the fact that today's soldiers are all volunteers. I've heard a lot of opinion from different vets. They run the gament. My son is a professional soldier, up for E7 and filling an E7 slot as his brigade's NCOIC Operations. He was in Iraq early with the 1st Armored Division in 2003-2004. I don't think it's my place to speak for him, and I know he is a consumate professional who will implent orders and lead his troops as ordered, that's why they made him OPs SGT, but his views on this war and the administartion running it are mixed.

Generally, I witness respect for the young men and women on campus who have served. It is a different day than 35 years ago.

MK
"Soldier's views on this war vary just as in our day, in spite of the fact that today's soldiers are all volunteers. I've heard a lot of opinion from different vets."
Therer is a clear thread of belief running through this article: that all Iraq vets think the same way and that they all receive bad treatmnet at the hands of academics. That also pays into an old belief that Vietnam vets all thought the same way and received the same treatment.
I have by now talked to quite a few Iraqi vets--there's plenty of them here in OR-- and they weill be makeing new ones for years to come. There's a BIG difference in the way they all view the war. Many of them seem as disillusioned as I felt in the Vietnam Era and for many of the same reasons, like: this war has been micromanaged by politicians who sent them into another no-win war without the proper armor and equipment. SOme are posiitive about the war, some negative.
My own experience is that soldiers know all about their own sacrifices and those of their compatriots but know very little about the political situation. I didn't learn the facts about Vietnam untill much later. As a grunt, I certainly got the worms eye view of the situation and though I came back thinking I knew all about it, I actually didn't.
As combat veterans we wanted our sacrifices to be important in the eyes of society but they get swept under the rug in EVERY generation. Its the people who made no sacrifice that wind up in charge and that opinion has never been better applied than to our current leadership--not ONE Vietnam veteran in the upper levels of the Bush administration--I guess that says well enough what they think of our counsel and the importance of our experience.
I spent 17 years(on and off) in college getting a 4 year college degree andf I never encountered the dislike and ripoff for soldiers I did when I spent 9 months in Ft Bragg North Carolina, my last 9 months in the army. Its the people of "FayetteNam" that ought to be ashamed of themselves IMHO.
"I say, "thank God for the discussion!"" So do I and so should every American that values freedom of speech
Stay good
james

The author od this article seems to want to say that

[Seascamp]

Free speech for whom, James? That is certainly not a property, aspiration or practice that I would ever associate with a North American Liberal or US Liberal institution of higher education. One of the largest teaching challenges I face in Hungary, Slovakia, Czechs Republic and the Russian Federation is to get the students to open up a bit, present opinions, be confident with presented problem solutions and to simply stop seeking permission to be inventive and creative. All I have met are between 25 and 35 years of age, have University Degrees in engineering, had the Communist education, forced indoctrination, forced membership in the Young Pioneers, all of it. I fail to see the good in all that happened to them, for all I see is young people that are very bitter, fatalistic and introspective beyond their years. To a person they are very contemptuous of the Communists and the Russians, even if there is a Russian student in the class. So ya, I have to deal with that situation as well. And at least with that issue, they are very, very outspoken.

And sure, cleaning up after the shit path left by the Red Bear isn?t a lot of fun but it beats the hell out of trying to cope with the Liberalism that pretends at almost everything and is disingenuous about the ethics of teaching. But I?ve been following the Red Bear?s path for a very long time now and know the drill and know exactly what I?m looking at, book chapter and verse. Bet on that, James.

One point of interest, but maybe not. The Universities in the region, specifically former Communist dictatorship Republics, discourage political activism by students or Professors on campus. Department Professor Masat, Budapest, told me ?We are no longer ?Patrice Lamumba University South and have no more time for distractions or brow beating?. The deal is that the Profs and students reserve the right to speak up on issues they feel strongly about, but not during class or class hours. No laws, just an agreement that seems to work.

Scamp

[MontanaKid]

All I can say is you have a very one-sided and extremist view of U.S. Higher Education. Students stream here from all over the world. It's the best. But we are now straying away from any Vietnam connection. I think the original topic was comparision of treatment of veterans of Vietnam and the new vets of the Iraq War.