Police Brutality/Self Defense

[39mto39g]

I think the problem is that your watching CNN instead of Fox news, No body I have heard say anything but the cops did the right thing.

Ron

[Seascamp]

You?re right. Fox has made that stance but some of their debate guests drive the opposite pole and I like to listen to both sides just to see what?s shaking. I gave up on CNN but MSNBC can get a bit lively and mix it up fairly well.

Scamp

[Andy]

There has been a bad taste in my mouth since I saw cops hitting people with clubs in Selma Ala. When was that, about 40 years ago? Anyone with a heart sees a person who is unarmed getting wacked with a stick and there is a knee jerk reaction.

I know you have too much common sense to think the cops were trying to kill this guy. You were playing devil's advocate for the "victim", I was being the advocate for the defense.

Glad that we can do that without any hard feelings or nasty comments. The Civil trial might make it to Court TV, if it does I'll be watching.

Stay healthy,
Andy

[MORTARDUDE]

I was never a cop. I have good friends who are. Excuse me, but aren't there other ways to subdue a moron like this besides trying to twist his arm behind him and beating him with sticks...Please list other alternatives and why you think they weren't used. We went thru this same exercise ( what ? 10 years ago ? ) with Rodney King. Thanks.

Larry

[Seascamp]

Sure Andy,
Interesting things are where ya find them and playing devil?s advocate once in a while to get the reasoning and facts out doesn?t hurt a thing. I reckoned you?d professionally lay it out in terms of both practical and technical reality. Good job and we all learned a lot, thanks.
And yes, I?m amazed the Cops just didn?t drop him on the spot as their heart rates had to be astronomical and sphincters slammed tight, wow, impressive restraint and control. And of course they had no intention of killing the Guy. Maybe stinging his butt real good and proper to get his attention and cooperation is about it I think.


Larry,
My only expertise with a nightstick was to find any and every excuse to keep it in the duty belt loop. I figured a drunk Sailor or Marine would just laugh at a sound smacking and then use me for a deck swab, LOL.
I would suppose that a reasonable alternative to a nightstick could be some form of chemical like mace, but I don?t know.

Scamp

[SuperScout]

Trying to get this perp to obey the commands of the police was easier than teaching a chicken to whistle. The pathological effects of PCP obviate sensory perception, visually and auditorily, enhance physical strength by a factor of sometimes ten, and also invite logic and common sense to take a semi-permanent vacation. If some fool had attacked me or some of my men like he did, the last audio signal passing through his ear canal would be the sound of another clip being loaded into my 9mm after I had emptied the first one into his overweight body. Remember who the real victims are in this scenario, and it ain't Fatboy.

[MORTARDUDE]

Scout :


Perhaps you misunderstood me. For the very reasons you mentioned, it would seem much more reasonable to me to shock, stun, gas, fire disabling foam , or pepper spray this fool, than getting up close and personal with him. The effects you cited in regard to PCP are disputed by some.

Larry

[reeb]

Larry,

They ( the police ) did try the pepper spray, and it didnt work.

The stun gun ? I dont think so, but on a guy this size and comming at you swinging for his life, and in the meanwhile, the cops are looking out for their lives, I dont think it would have worked.

But as I said before, WHY did the Perimedics leave so soon? It shows them leaving as the Police show up.

True, there was NO reason for the other police car coming up and the cop jumping out and Night Stick in hand and start hitting also, but this Man was equal to all three of the cops, then came more cops.

Face it ( to my own personal thoughts ), this man was a " walking time bomb " cause of the drugs and alcohol and no " common sense ".

If that would have happened in LA or Dallas, the cops would have emptied their revolvers first and face the consequences.

That is final on this subject.

enough............

[Andy]

I?ve never taken PCP, however a doctor told me the physical effects are similar to speed. The U.S. Army issued me amphetamines more than once. However the mental effects of PCP is very different, sort of like a liquor black out. Speed does give you more energy and I believe more strength. It was invented by the Germans prior to WWII to be a synthetic adrenalin and we all know what adrenalin can do. PCP is the next step up.

Mace and pepper spray usually do not work on people who are speeding or high on PCP other than to make them angry and make their eye water a lot. Blurred vision can be helpful but if the guy has those chemicals on his clothing they will get you too if you get close to him. No one that I know uses the sticky foam around here, it?s awkward, expensive and has a fairly short shelf live. Recently the city of Springfield, just south of here, had to lay off 76 police officers, purchasing foam is not a priority.

A cop was successfully sued or at least his city was several years ago for using a tazar, the stun gun. Officer hit a guy with the tazar twice, the perp had a pace maker and died. Stun guns fell out of favor after that. (That case was a lot different, no one could testify the guy was resisting arrest.)

What would I do with this guy, that is Monday morning quarterbacking. However in the past we would usually have one guy get his attention and another guy or two jump him from behind. There are all sorts of pressure points on the body, some cause not only pain, which works great on normal people, but also can cause a limb to go numb. Once you have the cuffs on the guy things go a lot smoother. Please don?t ask the names of any of these holds, I never took a class in marshal arts, it was sort of ?Street Fighting 101?. One of my favorites was to take a flash light, stick it into a guys arm pit while holding onto his wrist and jack him up. The arm goes numb in about 10 to 15 seconds, it?s also very painful for normal people. That sort of move is called a ?come along?, the guy will come along with you, where ever you go.

Reeb, the other cops jumping in. They did so because being a cop means there is a brotherhood. You see a brother in trouble you jump in, maybe pull another cop who's tired, out of the fray, but you get a piece of the guy trying to hurt the badge. If not, you are looked down on. In Vietnam if someone got their tit caught in a ringer, you would come to his aid right - well, same same.

Stay healthy,
Andy

[MORTARDUDE]

Andy :

Well stated. Thanks.

Larry