Police Brutality/Self Defense

[reeb]

Just an opion wanted:

This dude from Cincinatti Ohio , one Nathaniel Jones age 41 died after in custody of the police.

You have most likely seen it on tv.

From what you seen ( not heard );

Were the police in the proper respecttively manner they were suppose to be.

The police were fighting for their lives also.

This Mr. Jones. 350 lbs, high on Coke, PCP is on a rage.

Had an enlarged heart, plus the fact of the drugs.

Tried and tried like heck to get the cops, shows that plainly.

In my words, Karen asked me what I would do this morning after she seen it. I told her simple. Him Or Me. !!!

In simple language I told her that if I seen some VN aiming right at me for the intent to hurt or kill, which comes first. I would shoot first and ask questions later ( even to the officers ) . After all it is my life....

JUST AN OPION ON THIS, ( so dont get up tight )

enough.........

[Jerry D]

Reeb; me and the wife agreed that the 350# perp was definitely resisting arrest and tried several times to hurt the arresting officers so the only thing that killed him was his enlarged heart ,high blood pressure and his being under the influence and thinking he could take on the entire Cinncinnatti Police Force single handedly, Not a smart idea for anyone. So in my opinion no police brutality there in this case.

[melody1181]

I do not think those cops set out to do anything bad. When that big of a man come at you and hits you, you have to defend yourself and the life of your partner(in this case)
There is always people who want stuff to hit the fan and cause a big hopla.

[Boats]

One never knows until in that position. Survival kicks in one thinks of his or her possibility of being badly hurt under those circumstances.

All the training in the world can not always prevent events such as those we saw on TV. Unless you are in that position under those exact circumstances you and I can't really relate to the issue of whether or not too much force was used.

We all regret seeing such brutality but again not being in those circumstances I can't relate to much more than I've said.

[39mto39g]

The last thing that guy should have heard before dieing is CLICK. That would have been my empty gun.

Ron

[revwardoc]

Wednesday, December 03, 2003

CINCINNATI?The coroner said Wednesday that a struggle with police was the primary cause in the death of a 350-pound black man whose scuffle with officers outside a fast-food restaurant has prompted outcry among black leaders.

Hamilton County Coroner Carl Parrott saidNathaniel Jones, 41, suffered from an enlarged heart, obesity and had intoxicating levels of cocaine, PCP and methanol in his blood.

Parrott said the death will be ruled a homicide, but added that such a ruling "should not be interpreted as implying inappropriate behavior or the use of excessive force by police." Homicide rulings are issued when someone dies at the hands of another person.

Jones' death certificate will list a cause of death as an irregular heart beat because of a stress reaction from the violent struggle, Parrott said.

Activists say Jones' death was another example of brutality by Cincinnati police against blacks in a city that was rocked by race riots two years ago.

The coroner's ruling came shortly after lawyers for Jones' family called for an independent investigation, claiming the coroner has mishandled past cases.

"It's hard for me to believe anything that comes out of the coroner's office," attorney Kenneth Lawson said at a news conference.

Relatives said Jones was a loving person who never hurt anyone.

"They talk about Skip like he was an animal," said his grandmother, Bessie Jones. "He wasn't. Skipper was just a good old, fat jolly fella. He wasn't violent."

"Everyone he met, that he touched, loved him," said his aunt, Diane Payton. "He was never mean."

The struggle occurred early Sunday after an employee at a White Castle called 911 to report that a man had passed out on the lawn outside. Emergency personnel arrived and reported that the man was awake and "becoming a nuisance," according to police radio transmissions.

The first two arriving officers were shown on a police video striking Jones after he ignored orders to "stay back," took a swing at an officer and put his arm around one's neck.

The officers later knocked Jones to the ground and fell on him, and jabbed or clubbed him with nightsticks at least a dozen times over several minutes until he was handcuffed. They kept yelling, "Put your hands behind your back!" as they struggled to handcuff him.

Jones' body had bruising on the lower half, but did not show signs of blows to the head or organ damage, Parrott said.

Jones was carrying cocaine and three hand-rolled cigarettes that had been dipped in methanol, an ingredient in embalming fluid that gets people high, authorities said.

Messages seeking comment on the ruling were left with the prosecutor and police chief.

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Personally, I don't fault the police for taking such action. It seems that every time there's a white-on-black (or Asian or Hispanic) incident, the first thing someone does is play the race card.

[frisco-kid]

report also showed that this guy had both cocaine and PCP in his system. PCP is well documented as causing violent behavior and almost super-human strength in people. Even "a good old, fat jolly fella." Plus, either one of these drugs has the capability of killing someone with a bad heart by themselves. I don't know why this was ruled a homocide. I'm guessing to appease the black community. These guys are going to get off, though. The defense is going to call a bus load of "expert witnesses" to verify all of this. There will definately be "a shadow of a doubt" about the guilt of these police officers.

[39mto39g]

The term homocide doesn't me the cops did anything wrong. It means that the cause of death was the struggle, in that, he would have most likely NOT died if there hadn't been one.
If the cops were chaseing him down the road and he died, it would have been rulled a homocide because the chase was the cause of death.
The cops didn't do anything wrong, it will go to a grand jury and be thrown out.

Ron

[1IDVET]

Total self defense.

Ron is correct in the terminology of homicide.

[Seascamp]

Obviously lethal force was used and Jones died. From the video clip it appears that Jones was a rampaging bull but the clip also shows the Cop using lethal force once Jones was down but not completely subdued. Regardless of what a Grand Jury might rule or opine, the image of that Cop double-handing that night stick like a whaling lance is going to stick in the public eye and it isn?t going to go away. If lethal force on an unarmed man like that is within some acceptable procedure, then I have a sinking feeling Cincinnati is in for some real rough times ahead.

As well, I hope Cincinnati has real deep pockets as the gold rush is on and in a civil suit the image of that Cop in the role of some ?Capt. Ahab atop Moby Dick, lancing away? is going to be the ballgame and I?m sure there are many experts for hire that will attest to the lethal nature of the blunt end of a night stick. My guess is that as the issue gathers momentum, the Rodney King episode will look like small potatoes.

Scamp