John F. Kerry Ended his Military Career by lying ...

[Ironside]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK Nice graphics.

If his arm was bleeding with pain to a degree warranting the Bronze with V, then why did he not find himself in hospital, soon, or ever.

The Bronze Star wasn't for a wound. That would be the Purple Heart. I believe the Bronze Star was for the action itself, whether he was wounded or not made no difference.

[BLUEHAWK]

How did he earn the Purple Hearts.

[Ironside]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK How did he earn the Purple Hearts.

I don't know, I wasn't there. Were you?

[catman]

I assure you sir, this veteran and firefighter will never vote for a man who stands against the government of the United States and milks money from the families he marries into.

Good strong moral values being represented there.

Check his voting record, this man has done more to hurt the military you claim to honor than any other elected official. He has voted against every new weapon that has been proposed since he took office. What do you think he will do once he gets in office?

Trav

[BLUEHAWK]

Ironside, I've come as far with you on this trail as I can. My unit is movin' off the other way, and I am honored to carry their flag smartly.

Godspeed you safe, we'll be watching your six.

Gotta go now.

[Ironside]

Originally posted by catman I assure you sir, this veteran and firefighter will never vote for a man who stands against the government of the United States and milks money from the families he marries into.

Good strong moral values being represented there.

Check his voting record, this man has done more to hurt the military you claim to honor than any other elected official. He has voted against every new weapon that has been proposed since he took office. What do you think he will do once he gets in office?

Trav

Then you ARE voting for Kerry!

[catman]

Hold your breath.

I can get these same responses from my five year old.

As bluehawk said, you are on your own.

Trav

[catman]

From a friend who served in 3 corps


I was in the Delta shortly after he left. I know that area well. I know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the doctrine used. I know the equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (Swift Boats), Kerry's command.

Here are my problems and suspicions:

(1)Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected, a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three purple hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job. But that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs.

(2) Three Purple Hearts but no limp. All injuries so minor that no time lost from duty. Amazing luck.Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on the boats was almost always at close range.You didn't have minor wounds. At least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three purple hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.

(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with the twin 50, Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retrieves the launcher. If true, he did everything wrong.

(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a Frisbee after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your 50's.

(b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to you just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, and you wanted some daring do in your after-action report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules against that, too.

(c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple. If you had somebody on the beach your boat was defenseless. It coudn't run and it couldn' t return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight.

Something is fishy.

Here we have a JFK wannabe(the guy Halsey wanted to court martial for carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple people killed by running across the bow of a Jap destroyer) who is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early, requests separation from active duty a few months after that so he can run for Congress, finds out war heros don't sell well in Massachusetts in 1970 so reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his political career, gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and Bobby Kennedy's speech writer to do the heavy lifting, winds up in the Senate himself a few years later, votes against every major defense bill, says the CIA is irrelevant after the Wall came down, votes against the Gulf War, a big mistake since that turned out well, decides not to make the same mistake twice so votes for invading Iraq, but oops, that didn't turn out so well so he now says he really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allow him to go to war.

I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering our flanks in Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander in Chief. I hope that somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some facts challenging Kerry's Vietnam record. I know in my gut it's wildly inflated. And fishy.

[Ironside]

Originally posted by catman From a friend who served in 3 corps


I was in the Delta shortly after he left. I know that area well. I know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the doctrine used. I know the equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (Swift Boats), Kerry's command.

Here are my problems and suspicions:

(1)Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected, a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three purple hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job. But that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs.

(2) Three Purple Hearts but no limp. All injuries so minor that no time lost from duty. Amazing luck.Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on the boats was almost always at close range.You didn't have minor wounds. At least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three purple hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.

(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with the twin 50, Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retrieves the launcher. If true, he did everything wrong.

(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a Frisbee after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your 50's.

(b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to you just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, and you wanted some daring do in your after-action report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules against that, too.

(c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple. If you had somebody on the beach your boat was defenseless. It coudn't run and it couldn' t return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight.

Something is fishy.

Here we have a JFK wannabe(the guy Halsey wanted to court martial for carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple people killed by running across the bow of a Jap destroyer) who is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early, requests separation from active duty a few months after that so he can run for Congress, finds out war heros don't sell well in Massachusetts in 1970 so reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his political career, gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and Bobby Kennedy's speech writer to do the heavy lifting, winds up in the Senate himself a few years later, votes against every major defense bill, says the CIA is irrelevant after the Wall came down, votes against the Gulf War, a big mistake since that turned out well, decides not to make the same mistake twice so votes for invading Iraq, but oops, that didn't turn out so well so he now says he really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allow him to go to war.

I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering our flanks in Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander in Chief. I hope that somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some facts challenging Kerry's Vietnam record. I know in my gut it's wildly inflated. And fishy.

And Bush played AWOL Chickenhawk, ducking out of Vietnam?
That's ok?

I really doubt you wanna compare Military Services here.

Just imagine how the spin would be with the Veterans of the Right had these two switched Military Records and Kerry was the chickenhawk, while Bush the Vietnam War Hero.

Just imagine!

[SuperScout]

Get your facts straight, for once in your young life, Bush was not an AWOL chickenhawk. The records prove it, but apparently your transparent and pathological hatred has your vision occluded.

We not comparing military records of Bush and Kerry, and what they did during the 60's and 70's. But just to set your mind at ease, if the roles were reversed, I'd be questioning the wisdom of Bush in leaving his boat, of shooting unarmed enemy, of killing civilians, and of writing himself up for valorous awards. But since it's your boy Kerry, I'll confine my criticism of him and his questionable actions. Here's the bottom line, if you're man enough to admit it: Kerry was an inept junior officer, a bungling excuse for a real warrior, and a grandstanding self-promoter. If I had been his CO, I would have relieved him, and brought him up on charges with enough specifications that would have landed him in the brig for 15 years to life.