The Passion of the Christ

[BLUEHAWK]

Mel and Nang - thanks for your considerate thoughts to my outlandish ones... ya know though, sometimes I DO wonder just how much blood of Jesus people really want to actually see with their own eyes for them to finally believe...

I'm tired and cranky and older than I should be, so maybe that's why I talk this way...

I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER forgive Christians for what they did to the tribal people of this nation. My tribal chief has counseled me that today is today, and we must forget and move on. I plan to move on when I hear some serious difference of approach to such things as the glorification of shedding of blood, and I am grateful to Mr. Gibson for dramatizing the blood and suffering in such a way as to draw out the Sadists and the devout amongst us.

Christians have been as much a scourge upon God's earth as we have been beneficent, and nothing can take away the terror we have caused.

[nang]

As to how much blood we need to see- I don't want to see any of his blood spilled. I already know the sacrifice he made for me,but many don't and I believe that's why Mel felt this movie needed to be made in this fashion. As to the crimes that were committed years and years ago-what can I say? There have been atrocities committed to many many different races and religions. I guess the only answer is to educate so that it never happens again. I believe there was so much ignorance back then-no tolerance for different looks or beliefs.

[MORTARDUDE]

We are going to see the movie this week... Sue, many thanks for the review. I have emailed it to a bunch of folks...

A few things to say about religion, Jesus, and our lives on Earth...all IMHO..not meant to start flame-wars, so DON"T.. Thanks.


I grew up in the Southern Baptist church, as many of you did. You know the version of the Jesus story we all heard. The blue-eyed blond-haired loving Jesus ( as contrasted to Yahweh in the Old Testament )...Some subjects that were danced around were tithing, death, Hell, and to some extent the pain that Jesus suffered at the end of his life.... Also Jesus' anger in the temple with the money changers wasn't discussed much ( as wasn't his curse of the fig tree )...Life on this earth is brutal. Most of us in the USA have no concept how brutal and horrible it can be. Thanks to 220+ years of freedom, many of us ( not the ones here for the most part ) live our lives on automatic-pilot taking for granted everything God has given us. We gripe about being fat, being skinny, the cost of Cable TV, the cost of the vet for our dogs, in fact... gripe about everything while billions, YES BILLIONS, of people world-wide are being persucuted and murdered because they want to read about the "man" in Mel Gibson's movie. As you all know, I have a very skeptical and imquiring nature. God has led me to several books over the past year ( I have posted these elsewhere ) that have convinced me that The Shroud of Turin is real, and that the Bible is 100 % true and accurate. I am not ashamed of this, and never will be. Jesus's life was all about his witness. The folks that saw him in person scoffed, reviled, denied, abused, and caused him to suffer horribly. His very own disciples turned him in and denied him. It was time for a more accurate version of what happened at the end of Jesus' life to be told. I give Mel Gibson all the credit in the world for that. I do not try to convert anyone. I just tell them my story and let them deal with it.
I look forward to seeing this movie. All IMHO.

Larry

[melody1181]

Blue....I have a touch of Indian far back. I also refuse to watch most westerns due to the way they depeict(sp?) Native Americans. I also think that it is wrong to blame all of one kind for some of "them" I will not argue that what went on is this country then was right. The land was rapped and many a innocent people slaughtered. But its not fair to say that all Christians were that way then...or now. You are right...it should never be forgotten and always remembered. We need to make sure it never happens again. It happened and we need to learn from it. The people who did most of the stuff then were not real Christians either.

For me...I didn't need to see this movie to believe. It may be stupid to some but I have blind faith with beleif. I do not need the proof...DNA test and carbon dating and all that crud....I just believe.

[Keith_Hixson]

I think you can safely say that what goes on in the name of Christ is not always Christian.

Some see the abuses of the organized "Church" and blame all Christians for their actions.

The Catholic Church has had many abuses through out the years.

The protestant church when placed in a political power position was just as guilty of CRIMES against humanity in the name of Christ.

Now comes the place where I seperate all this from my faith.

What individuals and organizations do in the name of Christ is totally seperate from the Christ I love and serve. I cannot undo the mistakes of the past but I can recognize that those mistakes do not represent the God I love and serve. I also understand that organized churches are run by man and will make mistakes. I know lots of people see some priest or minister make a mistake or some organized church do something stupid and harmful and say, "If this is what Christianity is all about then I want nothing of it." To me that is so sad. The Church of Jesus Christ is not an organization that man makes it is: All true believers who have made a personal Committment to Jesus Christ, they are the true Church. God doesn't really care too much if you are Catholic or Protestant, but He does want you to believe in Him and make a committment to Him.

Now having said that: I do believe that local congregations and denominations can be an instrument which God uses to get things done on earth. But again they are not perfect. Most denominations do far more good than bad. To dwell on the past mistakes of organizations and call that the "church" is wrong" - that is nothing more than a group of misguided individuals, that is not the church. Yet those who don't want to believe will look at the mistakes of a few and use that as an excuse not to believe in God.

Keith

[SuperScout]

What Keith said.........

Plus, one little note: kindly confine your broad paint brush to the closest garbage site. Trying to portray all Christians as heathen-enslaving proselytizers is off-target.

[revwardoc]

http://www.hoosiergazette.com/News/news022.htm

Moviegoers at Stadium 16 Theater in Evansville attending a showing of ?Passion of the Christ? got more than they bargained for Saturday night.

They were greeted in the lobby of the theater by a man wearing a ?red devil? costume. Tyler Wendell, a 19 year old freshman at the University of Southern Indiana, caused quite a ruckus with his get-up. The audience, many who were part of church groups, was visibly upset by the antics of Wendell.

?I always like to push the limits,? Wendell said. Many were upset that Wendell chose to wear a devil costume to a religious movie. Many patrons jeered Wendell as he stood in line for concessions.

Once inside the movie, Christians began pelting Wendell with Gummy Bears, Ju-Ju Bees, and popcorn. Management got involved after a 75-year-old woman, Hazel Meyer, poured a 64-ounce Coca-Cola on Wendell.

Tim Tolbert, General Manager of Kerasotes Stadium 16, asked Wendell to leave because he was such a disruptive presence. ?Our corporate policy is to eject anyone that interferes with the movie experience of fellow patrons,? Tolbert said.

Ingrid Holzappel, a member of Corpus Christi Catholic Church, was outraged. ?This is no place for this type of behavior,? Holzappel remarked, ?This was already a sensitive subject, and then to mock it by dressing up as Satan is despicable.?

When asked what he hoped to accomplish by his actions, Wendell said he likes doing things to get a reaction. He was also inspired by a biography he read about the Marquis de Sade.

De Sade was an 18^th century writer who caused scandals with his libertine behavior in pre-revolutionary France. De Sade was once arrested for desecrating the Holy Eucharist to see if God really existed. Wendell said his stunt was along the same lines.

Wendell, an atheist, said, ?If God really existed, He would have struck me down for dressing as the devil.? He also wanted to prove ?that Christians aren?t as forgiving as they portray?. Wendell says his actions were also partially due to a genuine dislike of Mel Gibson.

Tolbert replied that Wendell was ?a misguided and deranged person.? Tolbert also said measures are being taken to ensure this type of disruption does not occur again. ?From now on, people dressed offensively will not be allowed to enter the theatre.? Kerasotes? management is in the process of creating new guidelines for preventing people dressed as ?evil beings? from gaining entrance to the theatre.

As of this writing, Evansville police were investigating the incident.

[BLUEHAWK]

Scout, that was a mite brisk agin' ole Blue - it's like with America herself, let us not shy away from taking full responsibility for our errors as much as we take justifiable joy and pride in our goodness, ... I do NOT paint ALL Christians with the brush meant for some. At least did not intend to do so. But an honest person has GOT to admit, Christians do not have a very good record since 300 AD or so in certain very specific areas of playing well with others.

[BLUEHAWK]

From the "No Comment" department:

"What is most depressing about 'The Passion' is the thought that people will take their children to see it. Jesus said, 'Suffer the little children to come unto me,' not 'Let the little children watch me suffer.' How will parents deal with the pain, terror, and anger that children will doubtless feel as they watch a man flayed and pierced until dead? The despair of the movie is hard to shrug off, and Gibson's timing couldn't be more unfortunate: another dose of death-haunted religious fanaticism is the last thing we need."

David Henry
NEW YORKER magazine
3.1.2004
page 86

[BLUEHAWK]

Larry - which specific linguistic translation of the Gospel did God lead you to?