Vets Refuse to Forgive Kerry

Don't You think that if things published like this were untrue there
would be big Law Suits, there fore I contend they must be true.

So what are the chances that Kerry may not be President Material,
because this story outlines an individual, in my opinion is not.




Vets Refuse to forgive Kerry for antiwar acts


By Charles Hurt
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


John Forbes Kerry, who has voiced his presidential aspirations
since high school, criticized America's "intervention" in Vietnam before
going to the war, confirmed his beliefs during five months of duty there
and returned to build a career in politics based on his opposition to it.
"The United States must, I think, bring itself to understand that
the policy of intervention that was right for Western Europe does not
and cannot find the same application to the rest of the world," Mr.
Kerry told his Yale University classmates in a 1966 graduation address.
Within the next five years, at the height of the antiwar movement,
Mr. Kerry was referring to America's leadership as "deserters" and "war
criminals," portraying U.S. soldiers in Vietnam as inhumane killers and
inflaming protesters by tearfully tossing away war medals — medals he
would admit 13 years later weren't his.
"These are the commanders who have deserted their troops," Mr.
Kerry in 1971 told Congress after listing the top commanders of U.S.
forces in Vietnam. "And there is no more serious crime in the laws of war."
The eventual senator from Massachusetts had found his political
footing among war protesters and in front of the cameras, a place he
would come to know and cherish, according to his state's political
insiders, who have told the Boston Globe they refer to him as "Live
Shot," for his penchant for attracting coverage.
Mr. Kerry has used his impressive war record — he won a Silver
Star, Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts — as the foundation of his
political career, and since beginning his bid for the Democratic
presidential nomination this year, has invoked his military credentials
whenever possible.
"As I look around at my crew mates and the veterans here today, I
am reminded that the best lessons I learned about being an American came
in a place far away from America — on a gunboat in the Mekong Delta with
a small crew of volunteers," Mr. Kerry told supporters when he formally
began his campaign at Patriots Point, S.C., with the USS Yorktown as a
backdrop.
"I saw courage both in the Vietnam War and in the struggle to stop
it. I learned that patriotism includes protest, not just military service."
On the campaign trail, Mr. Kerry routinely draws distinctions
between his service and that of President Bush, such as when he lampoons
Mr. Bush for landing in a jet on an aircraft carrier to announce the end
to major operations in Iraq.
"I know something about aircraft carriers for real," Mr. Kerry
often says.
The same record Mr. Kerry wields as evidence of his leadership
abilities is also used by his harshest critics, who question the
severity of the injuries he used to get sent home early and the five
medals he garnered in five months.
"If I got three Purple Hearts for three scratches, I'd be
embarrassed," said Ted Sampley, who fought in Vietnam and publishes U.S.
Veteran Dispatch. He remembers soldiers turning away awards for minor
injuries.
Mr. Kerry has said none of his Purple Heart injuries, only one of
which removed him from the field for two days, was critical.
After his third Purple Heart, Mr. Kerry requested and was granted
permission to return to the United States to work behind a desk in New
York. Even while still a Navy man, he began traveling to antiwar rallies
with leading war protesters such as Adam Walinsky, a former speech
writer for Robert F. Kennedy.
Mr. Walinsky recalled that Mr. Kerry flew him around the state of
New York for several Vietnam Moratorium protests in October 1969.
"He was a guy who had been in the war," he said. "We spent a lot of
time talking about the campaign, the presidential campaign and the
Vietnam War."
Mr. Kerry has said he did not take part in the protests, but was
intrigued by Mr. Walinsky's views about the war. The two men stayed in
contact and "became reasonably good friends," Mr. Walinsky said.
Others were shocked by the Naval officer's association with the
antiwar movement.
"He gets this cushy job in his hometown, goes around protesting the
war, then asks to get out six months early," Mr. Sampley said. "What
regulations were busted when Kerry — as a Naval officer and still on the
payroll — was flying around protesting the war? And who had to stand in
and fight for John Kerry after he left six months early?"
Mr. Sampley recently started a group called Vietnam Veterans
Against John Kerry. The Web site, which labels the senator "Hanoi John
Kerry," has attracted thousands of anti-Kerry e-mails and on line
postings from other veterans.
In Mr. Kerry's first active-duty assignment, he served in the
electrical department of the USS Gridley, a guided-missile frigate
supporting the Navy's fleet of carriers in the Gulf of Tonkin.
"I didn't have any real feel for what the heck was going on [in the
war]," Mr. Kerry told the Boston Globe in a story last summer, referring
to his time on the Gridley.
He then became a commander of a Navy swift boat, which at the time
were used to transport sailors to ships in the gulf. Two weeks after
beginning his new assignment, the safe job he had picked became much
more dangerous when the boats began being used in the Mekong Delta to
seek out the Viet Cong and block North Vietnamese supply routes.
"I didn't really want to get involved in the war," the Globe cites
Mr. Kerry saying in a 1986 book about Vietnam. "When I signed up for the
swift boats, they had very little to do with the war. They were engaged
in coastal patrolling and that's what I thought I was going to do."
Then Lieutenant (j.g.) Kerry got more than he had expected. He was
involved in close combat with the Viet Cong, leading to all of his medals.
Questions arose during his 1996 Senate re-election campaign about
whether Mr. Kerry deserved the awards, in particular the Silver Star.
Accounts of the incident vary, but essentially Mr. Kerry chased down a
wounded Viet Cong fighter, killed him and stripped him of the B-40
rocket launcher he had just fired at Mr. Kerry's swift boat.
The Viet Cong fighter had already been wounded by the boat's
machine gunner, according to various reports from eyewitnesses, who had
"laid down 50 rounds" into the hootch where the man had run to hide and
from which Mr. Kerry emerged after applying what some described as the
"coup de grace" to the wounded Viet Cong.
A month later, an injured Mr. Kerry rescued a crewmate who had
fallen overboard when a mine exploded near their boat. He received his
third Purple Heart for an arm injury in this incident.
Bill Zaladonis, an engineman on Mr. Kerry's boat, remembers that
the future senator fought bravely and honorably. But, he said, some
veterans simply will never forget what Mr. Kerry did after the war.
"It doesn't matter what he does, they'll never forgive him," Mr.
Zaladonis said from his home in Florida. "One of my best friends says
he'll never vote for John Kerry — not even for dog catcher."
In the summer of 1970, Mr. Kerry joined a group called Vietnam
Veterans Against the War (VVAW), which he would later essentially lead,
and early the next year participated in what came to be known as the
"winter soldier" investigation, the group's inquiry into accusations of
war atrocities by American soldiers.
Mr. Kerry then testified before Congress, recounting the stories he
heard from soldiers during the VVAW's investigation.
"They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off
ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human
genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies,
randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of
Ghengis Khan ..." Mr. Kerry told the assembled senators.
It was a moment when even some of Mr. Kerry's defenders blanched.
"I really lost it when they started talking about those
atrocities," said Mr. Zaladonis. "That was more than a lot of us could
take." Still, he said, it was courageous of Mr. Kerry to stand up and
speak out, even if he didn't agree with him.
Mr. Sampley remembers Mr. Kerry's testimony more starkly: "He gave
the OK to the American people to call U.S. soldiers in Vietnam 'baby
killers.' "
"John Kerry gave aid and comfort to the enemy," said Mr. Sampley.
"These guys he ran with after he left Vietnam, they were pretty radical."
In the afternoon after his testimony, Mr. Kerry led a group of
Vietnam veterans to the front steps of the Capitol, where they tossed
away their war medals in disgust.
"Tour of Duty," the glowing 2004 biography of Mr. Kerry by Douglas
Brinkley, includes a photograph taken that day of his wife Julia Thorne
consoling Mr. Kerry, who is curled up on the front lawn of the Capitol,
weeping over the emotion of having just tossed away combat medals.
But it wasn't until 13 years later that Mr. Kerry admitted he had
actually thrown someone else's medals away, keeping his own safely at home.
Later that night, several of Mr. Kerry's VVAW followers took a
large American flag, flipped it upside down — a military signal of
distress — and marched around the White House. It was a photo of those
protesters carrying that flag Mr. Kerry chose as the cover of his book,
"The New Soldier."
Prior to joining the VVAW, Mr. Kerry's antiwar efforts were
low-key, but on Sept. 7, 1970, he got his first real taste for the
spotlight his stance would generate when he accepted a role in the
group's Operation RAW (Rapid American Withdrawal). It called for Vietnam
Veterans to march 86 miles between two Revolutionary War sites —
Morristown, N.J., and Valley Forge, Pa. The spectacle of a ragtag band
of ex-soldiers and sailors was aimed at getting the media's attention,
which it did.
He was a key speaker at the antiwar rally at Valley Forge, telling
those gathered that "we are here because we above all others have earned
the right to criticize the war on Southeast Asia."
"It is not patriotism to ask Americans to die for a mistake," Mr.
Kerry, wearing an Army jacket, told the crowd that included other
Vietnam veterans. "It is not patriotic to allow a president to talk
about not being the first president to lose a war, and using us as pawns
in that game."
An organizer for this and many other protests was actress and VVAW
supporter Jane Fonda, who later became the symbol of treasonous protest
when she went to Hanoi and sat astride an antiaircraft gun that had
surely been used to shoot down American planes. Though Mr. Kerry was
caught in a photograph with Miss Fonda, the senator has since said they
were not close associates.
--
Posted by HOPPIE, 30 Years Active Duty ,13 Campaigns Vietnam, Life
Member; Am.Lgn,DAV,VFW,AFSA

William Boyd wrote:
>Don't You think that if things published like this were untrue there
>would be big Law Suits, there fore I contend they must be true.
>
>So what are the chances that Kerry may not be President Material,
>because this story outlines an individual, in my opinion is not.
>
>
>
>
> Vets Refuse to forgive Kerry for antiwar acts
>
>
>By Charles Hurt
>THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Some stuff snipped . . . . .

> Questions arose during his 1996 Senate re-election campaign about
>whether Mr. Kerry deserved the awards, in particular the Silver Star.

Actually, questions did not arise. An article was written by a journalist for the Globe.
That journalist was roundly critized for his highly unprofessional piece. Kerry's crew,
including the one who this journalist interviewed, came forward to denounce the article.
That doesn't stop people from using it to this day.

>Accounts of the incident vary, but essentially Mr. Kerry chased down a
>wounded Viet Cong fighter, killed him and stripped him of the B-40
>rocket launcher he had just fired at Mr. Kerry's swift boat.

Pretty much, that's it. We aren't sure if that particular VC fired the B-40, as when he
was spotted, the B-40 he had was loaded.

In other words, he was armed.

> The Viet Cong fighter had already been wounded by the boat's
>machine gunner, according to various reports from eyewitnesses, who had
>"laid down 50 rounds" into the hootch where the man had run to hide and
>from which Mr. Kerry emerged after applying what some described as the
>"coup de grace" to the wounded Viet Cong.

Congratulations on getting a whole series of misstatements into one sentence.

For the record, the guy was hit once, by an M-60, in the leg. He was still able to get up
and run.

The "50 rounds" were by the .50 cal gunner. He didn't touch the VC. (not because he was a
bad shot, but because he couldn't see him.

And no, it was in no way a "coup de grace".

> A month later, an injured Mr. Kerry rescued a crewmate who had
>fallen overboard when a mine exploded near their boat. He received his
>third Purple Heart for an arm injury in this incident.

Close. But it wasn't a crewmate. It was an Army Special Forces advisor. This is the guy
who showed up in Oowa a few weeks ago.

Doug

Who wishes people would stick to the facts.

Usually dirt bags like Kerry, whose real profile is now coming to the
surface because of disclosure rules tells a story as to who is backing him
with millions flowing into the "Citizen Soldier Fund".

Interesting enough, during the war years there was a group called citizen
soldier which had ties to Soviet intelligence and the communist leadership
in North Vietnam. They provided testimony on behalf of the communists at
war crimes tribunals in Europe, provided legal assistance to American
deserters and draft dodges alike on the run in Europe and elsewhere. On
their advisory board was Cora Weiss, a procommunist activist in the U.S. and
one of the directors of the IPS a procommunist backed foundation. Weiss was
the known associate of Wilford G. Burchett, a high ranking KGB operator
recruited by the Soviets in 1934 in London by the Soviet AMB . He appeared
in North Korea where he aided the communists in the interrogation of allied
POWs and in later years during the Vietnam war arrived in Hanoi with one of
his wives, he had access to American POW camps in the North and the South.
Burchett entered the U.S. and traveled with Cora Weiss around the U.S.
giving procommunist speeches. Burchett, who was wanted by the British and
the Australians for the brutal treatment of POWs, he actually beat an
Australian POW and was known to brutalize others as well, entered the U.S.
with a Cuban passport to the United Nations, he enjoyed diplomatic immunity
by Fidel Castro. Around the same time Weiss appeared on the letter head
stationary of Citizen Soldier, a veteran organization. However, the group
was far from being on the side of or helping veterans. Financial reports of
the group indicated they were also aiding communist terrorists in Spain.
Also on the board was Ramsey Clark and an assortment of dirt bags.

Now, the issue is who is providing funds to Kerry from the Fund and whether
the Fund administrators are from the old club of closet communists who hide
themselves a honorable men when in fact they were as procommunist as one can
get. It is also very possible that some of the donors listed by the Fund
which all appear to be high rollers could be some of the Skull & Bonesmen
themselves, or the collection of human garbage out of the GI antiwar
movement who were busy testifying in Europe against American soldiers in
Vietnam.

The feast that Kerry associated himself with procommunist Jane Fonda should
not come as a surprise, she frequently traveled on a Russian passport to
Hanoi with people like Weiss and others who aided the communists. Weiss who
has long standing ties with the communist movements in the U.S. Europe and
Asia is the women who blackmailed Mrs. Mulligan into aiding the enemy, or
otherwise not hear from her husband, Weiss held up the mail from North
Vietnam. However, Mrs. Mulligan braved the situation out and testified
before the House and Senate about the activities of Weiss who served as a
North Vietnamese agent defacto. Among her friends is Hillary Clinton who
rushed off to Europe around the time Bill was leaving office to get an award
and gift from good old Cora. Hillary has some interesting friends.

One has to wonder how these low life's are able to hold security clearances,
Kerry, Hillary and so-forth. A few days ago I received some e-mails from
POWs telling me how Kerry had blocked testimony on live sightings by POWs
after Kerry's office had contacted them. Kerry blocked their testimony... I
guess this all goes to the core of the issue just what kind of human garbage
the man really.

One needs to be done is to determine whether Kerry was a member of the
procommunist SDS movement whose operations were controlled by the Soviet ad
Cuban intelligence services during the war years. SDS had long standing
links to Hanoi and aided the communist every step of the way.
Then there is of course the VVAW planned sea assault that was planned to
attack the Republican national convention in Florida years ago. Wonder if
that old Navy veteran was involved in master minding the assault which was
to be carried out with a rubber raft assault?

People have to come to grips a to whether this guys Kerry was a really
insane. Now if he was involved in the old antiwar SDS or merely recruited
while in private schools overseas remains to be seen. However, one thing is
really clear and that is the Navy may have screwed up when he under went a
security clearence. One thing is clear and that is its time for the FBI to
get off is dead ass and finds out just who Mr. Kerry really works for. Who
knows, perhaps he will just merely defect -- he can find a haven in Vietnam
and surely the communist government will build him a nice house just like
they have provided quarters for the rest of the redvets who come to visit.

Now, his short tour in Vietnam. He could have come home because of his
wounds. However, one thing is sure and that is the families of 9/11 can take
note that he voted down bills that would have provided in the end result
some hard intelligence on groups like Al Qeada whose members trained in the
Sudan and "Iraq" before they flew the planes into the WTC in NY. Keep in
mind Ladin's sister and brother were tucked away in Massachusetts before the
FBI put them Saudi bound on a leased jet after 9/11.

Kerry's former COS on the Senate Committee became the prolobbyist for Hanoi
in Washington. And who the hell wants a bonesmen in the White House - they
either turn out right of center of extreme left wing -- a cult whose origins
can be traced back to Nazi Germany and earlier, some traded with the enemy
during WWII. In any case America does not need a twit in the White House.




"Doug Reese" wrote in message
news:40393a73$0$3094$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> William Boyd wrote:
> >Don't You think that if things published like this were untrue there
> >would be big Law Suits, there fore I contend they must be true.
> >
> >So what are the chances that Kerry may not be President Material,
> >because this story outlines an individual, in my opinion is not.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Vets Refuse to forgive Kerry for antiwar acts
> >
> >
> >By Charles Hurt
> >THE WASHINGTON TIMES
>
> Some stuff snipped . . . . .
>
> > Questions arose during his 1996 Senate re-election campaign about
> >whether Mr. Kerry deserved the awards, in particular the Silver Star.
>
> Actually, questions did not arise. An article was written by a journalist
for the Globe.
> That journalist was roundly critized for his highly unprofessional piece.
Kerry's crew,
> including the one who this journalist interviewed, came forward to
denounce the article.
> That doesn't stop people from using it to this day.
>
> >Accounts of the incident vary, but essentially Mr. Kerry chased down a
> >wounded Viet Cong fighter, killed him and stripped him of the B-40
> >rocket launcher he had just fired at Mr. Kerry's swift boat.
>
> Pretty much, that's it. We aren't sure if that particular VC fired the
B-40, as when he
> was spotted, the B-40 he had was loaded.
>
> In other words, he was armed.
>
> > The Viet Cong fighter had already been wounded by the boat's
> >machine gunner, according to various reports from eyewitnesses, who had
> >"laid down 50 rounds" into the hootch where the man had run to hide and
> >from which Mr. Kerry emerged after applying what some described as the
> >"coup de grace" to the wounded Viet Cong.
>
> Congratulations on getting a whole series of misstatements into one
sentence.
>
> For the record, the guy was hit once, by an M-60, in the leg. He was still
able to get up
> and run.
>
> The "50 rounds" were by the .50 cal gunner. He didn't touch the VC. (not
because he was a
> bad shot, but because he couldn't see him.
>
> And no, it was in no way a "coup de grace".
>
> > A month later, an injured Mr. Kerry rescued a crewmate who had
> >fallen overboard when a mine exploded near their boat. He received his
> >third Purple Heart for an arm injury in this incident.
>
> Close. But it wasn't a crewmate. It was an Army Special Forces advisor.
This is the guy
> who showed up in Oowa a few weeks ago.
>
> Doug
>
> Who wishes people would stick to the facts.
>
>
>

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 1640 -0600, William Boyd
wrote:

>Don't You think that if things published like this were untrue there
>would be big Law Suits, there fore I contend they must be true.

You could contend that, but you'd be a freaking idiot if you did. And,
you'd be showing how little you know of libel law and what it calls
"public figures."

Doug Reese wrote in message news:<40393a73$0$3094$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
> William Boyd wrote:
> >Don't You think that if things published like this were untrue there
> >would be big Law Suits, there fore I contend they must be true.
> >
> >So what are the chances that Kerry may not be President Material,
> >because this story outlines an individual, in my opinion is not.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Vets Refuse to forgive Kerry for antiwar acts
> >
> >
> >By Charles Hurt
> >THE WASHINGTON TIMES
>
> Some stuff snipped . . . . .
>
> > Questions arose during his 1996 Senate re-election campaign about
> >whether Mr. Kerry deserved the awards, in particular the Silver Star.
>
> Actually, questions did not arise. An article was written by a journalist for the Globe.
> That journalist was roundly critized for his highly unprofessional piece. Kerry's crew,
> including the one who this journalist interviewed, came forward to denounce the article.
> That doesn't stop people from using it to this day.
>
> >Accounts of the incident vary, but essentially Mr. Kerry chased down a
> >wounded Viet Cong fighter, killed him and stripped him of the B-40
> >rocket launcher he had just fired at Mr. Kerry's swift boat.
>
> Pretty much, that's it. We aren't sure if that particular VC fired the B-40, as when he
> was spotted, the B-40 he had was loaded.
>
> In other words, he was armed.
>
> > The Viet Cong fighter had already been wounded by the boat's
> >machine gunner, according to various reports from eyewitnesses, who had
> >"laid down 50 rounds" into the hootch where the man had run to hide and
> >from which Mr. Kerry emerged after applying what some described as the
> >"coup de grace" to the wounded Viet Cong.
>
> Congratulations on getting a whole series of misstatements into one sentence.
>
> For the record, the guy was hit once, by an M-60, in the leg. He was still
> able to get up
> and run.
>
> The "50 rounds" were by the .50 cal gunner. He didn't touch the VC. (not
> because he was a
> bad shot, but because he couldn't see him.
>
> And no, it was in no way a "coup de grace".

The question I have on this part of the story is, why would the silver
star be awarded for what Kerry did? Was the enemy soldier alone? He
was running away? Basically, whenever you take on the enemy in close
order combat, are you awarded the silver star?

> > A month later, an injured Mr. Kerry rescued a crewmate who had
> >fallen overboard when a mine exploded near their boat. He received his
> >third Purple Heart for an arm injury in this incident.
>
> Close. But it wasn't a crewmate. It was an Army Special Forces advisor. This
> is the guy
> who showed up in Oowa a few weeks ago.

another question please. was Kerry's arm injury a direct result of
enemy fire? What was the extent of the injury?

-Steve

( who served in the Jessica Lynch army )

condo_five@yahoo.com (Steve Richter) wrote:
>Doug Reese wrote in message news:<40393a73$0$3094$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
>> William Boyd wrote:
>> >Don't You think that if things published like this were untrue there
>> >would be big Law Suits, there fore I contend they must be true.
>> >
>> >So what are the chances that Kerry may not be President Material,
>> >because this story outlines an individual, in my opinion is not.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Vets Refuse to forgive Kerry for antiwar acts
>> >
>> >
>> >By Charles Hurt
>> >THE WASHINGTON TIMES
>>
>> Some stuff snipped . . . . .
>>
>> > Questions arose during his 1996 Senate re-election campaign about
>> >whether Mr. Kerry deserved the awards, in particular the Silver Star.
>>
>> Actually, questions did not arise. An article was written by a journalist for the Globe.
>> That journalist was roundly critized for his highly unprofessional piece. Kerry's crew,
>> including the one who this journalist interviewed, came forward to denounce the article.
>> That doesn't stop people from using it to this day.
>>
>> >Accounts of the incident vary, but essentially Mr. Kerry chased down a
>> >wounded Viet Cong fighter, killed him and stripped him of the B-40
>> >rocket launcher he had just fired at Mr. Kerry's swift boat.
>>
>> Pretty much, that's it. We aren't sure if that particular VC fired the B-40, as when he
>> was spotted, the B-40 he had was loaded.
>>
>> In other words, he was armed.
>>
>> > The Viet Cong fighter had already been wounded by the boat's
>> >machine gunner, according to various reports from eyewitnesses, who had
>> >"laid down 50 rounds" into the hootch where the man had run to hide and
>> >from which Mr. Kerry emerged after applying what some described as the
>> >"coup de grace" to the wounded Viet Cong.
>>
>> Congratulations on getting a whole series of misstatements into one sentence.
>>
>> For the record, the guy was hit once, by an M-60, in the leg. He was still
>> able to get up
>> and run.
>>
>> The "50 rounds" were by the .50 cal gunner. He didn't touch the VC. (not
>> because he was a
>> bad shot, but because he couldn't see him.
>>
>> And no, it was in no way a "coup de grace".
>
>The question I have on this part of the story is, why would the silver
>star be awarded for what Kerry did? Was the enemy soldier alone? He
>was running away? Basically, whenever you take on the enemy in close
>order combat, are you awarded the silver star?

No, the enemy soldier was not alone.

Running away? Maybe yes, maybe no. Makes no difference. He was armed, and quite healthy
enough to take out the Swift Boat with his weapon.

>> > A month later, an injured Mr. Kerry rescued a crewmate who had
>> >fallen overboard when a mine exploded near their boat. He received his
>> >third Purple Heart for an arm injury in this incident.
>>
>> Close. But it wasn't a crewmate. It was an Army Special Forces advisor. This
>> is the guy
>> who showed up in Oowa a few weeks ago.
>
>another question please. was Kerry's arm injury a direct result of
>enemy fire? What was the extent of the injury?

A result of enemy fire? Absolutely.

The injury, as Kerry has said many times, was minor. I believe it was a shrapnel wound to the
leg that time.

Doug

>-Steve
>
>( who served in the Jessica Lynch army )

>The question I have on this part of the story is, why would the silver
>star be awarded for what Kerry did? Was the enemy soldier alone? He
>was running away? Basically, whenever you take on the enemy in close
>order combat, are you awarded the silver star?

Steve,

Kerry's citation is pathetically weak. What he did was routine, day to day
activity in my AO (I Corp - 1968). Every ground pounder in my unit wanted one
thing passionately - out of there (and preferably in one piece). We did not
want awards/medals of any type (and I do not recall any being awarded for
valor). We definitely did not want a PH. The point is, Kerry wanted all the
medals/awards he could amass in the shortest period of time (for his future
politcal ambitions?). Minor schrapnel/bullet wounds were field (Battalion HQ)
treated and the soldier returned. Only severe debilitating wounds were
medevaced out. In my time frame (1968) most field combat units were
undermanned. We were short on ground pounders, NCO's, officers, mortarmen, you
name it.

Our whole military effort was to break the backs of the NVA/VC (and we did).
During this effort Kerry is going to extraordinary ends to get out. He got what
he wanted (a pack of medals/awards, his resume now complete, it was time to
further his political ambitions). Kerry's brief and spectacular tour smacks
heavily of self-serving opportunism. I question his dedication to preserve
freedom and democracy. Kerry had doubts about our commitment in Vietnam before,
during and after. He still has doubts about using the military. In time of war,
the commander in chief must have one distinct quality; the ability to send our
troops out to kill enemy forces. The enemy has no qualms whatsoever about
killing our soldiers and civilians. Our leader must be equally possessed. Any
less dedication and resolve encourages the enemy to escalate.

Best Regards

Greg

References:
Posted by: William Boyd

> Vets Refuse to forgive Kerry for antiwar acts

Kerry has earned his right to his opinion. I happen to disagree with
him; however, he has much more credibility that does Bush in that
area. I regret that he appears to think we killed babies. I never
did. In truth, I never even raped any nuns.

It is my belief that Bush took us into a war which was very poorly
planned... where we had scant hope of gain and a very grave worst case
scenario.

I hope that Bush is a one-termer. I will do whatever is in my power
to do to effect that outcome. I'm somewhat less than optimistic,
though... and Nader's announcement tends to underscore my pessimism,

I see another Saigon, 1975... and Iraq doesn't even have decent dope
with which to blunt the pain.

Jones

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 1157 -0600, !Jones wrote:

>References:
>Posted by: William Boyd
>
>> Vets Refuse to forgive Kerry for antiwar acts
>
>Kerry has earned his right to his opinion. I happen to disagree with
>him; however, he has much more credibility that does Bush in that
>area. I regret that he appears to think we killed babies. I never
>did. In truth, I never even raped any nuns.
>
>It is my belief that Bush took us into a war which was very poorly
>planned... where we had scant hope of gain and a very grave worst case
>scenario.

Yea, it was poorly plan, brilliantly executed and now there is a
problem. But you don't see our ships, commercial airlines and large
buildings going down in flames. Is that a bad thing?

>I hope that Bush is a one-termer. I will do whatever is in my power
>to do to effect that outcome. I'm somewhat less than optimistic,
>though... and Nader's announcement tends to underscore my pessimism,

Bush is really starting to piss me off. I can live with him, but some
on the Cabinet are the problem as I see it not to mention his AG. Too
bad they got rid of Leiberman so early, he seems like a straight
shooter anyway.
>I see another Saigon, 1975... and Iraq doesn't even have decent dope
>with which to blunt the pain.
>
>Jones

References:
Posted by: Patrick t.

>On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 1157 -0600, !Jones wrote:
>
>>References:
>>Posted by: William Boyd
>>
>>> Vets Refuse to forgive Kerry for antiwar acts
>>
>>Kerry has earned his right to his opinion. I happen to disagree with
>>him; however, he has much more credibility that does Bush in that
>>area. I regret that he appears to think we killed babies. I never
>>did. In truth, I never even raped any nuns.
>>
>>It is my belief that Bush took us into a war which was very poorly
>>planned... where we had scant hope of gain and a very grave worst case
>>scenario.
>
>Yea, it was poorly plan, brilliantly executed and now there is a
>problem. But you don't see our ships, commercial airlines and large
>buildings going down in flames. Is that a bad thing?

"So far, so good," said the man who had jumepd out of the 20th story
as he passed the 3rd floor. We'll see. I hope you're right.

Jones