A List of Those Who Served and those who didn't serve:

[kenmar]

War, it seems, is one of those things that the more you know about it, the
less you want any part of it. With Iraq in the crosshairs, the leading
voices to go to war belong to those who have no military experience. More
often than not, those against a war with Iraq have served in the military.
Here's a list compiled by CHRISTINE PELISEK, with an assist from the New
Hampshire Gazette's Chickenhawks database
(http://www.nhgazette.com/chickenhawks.html)

BUSH ADMINISTRATION

GEORGE W. BUSH
Title: President
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: Bush signed up for the Texas Air National Guard for six
years in May 1969, which allowed him to avoid the Vietnam draft. He became
an F-102 pilot in 1970, making his last flight in 1972 when he moved to
Alabama to work on a GOP Senate campaign. After returning to Texas the
following year, Bush says he performed nonflying duty for the Guard, but
during his presidential campaign there were repeated charges that he
skipped the last year and a half of his Guard obligation.

DICK CHENEY ( news - web sites)
Title: Vice President
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: Once mumbled to a reporter that he "had other priorities
in the '60s than military service." Cheney received a couple of deferments
to avoid service, first because he was a student, then because he was married.

DONALD RUMSFELD
Title: Secretary of Defense
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: Flew jets for the Navy between the Korean and Vietnam
Wars but never saw combat.

I. LEWIS "SCOOTER" LIBBY
Title: Cheney's chief of staff and assistant for national security affairs
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: Sat out the Vietnam War at Yale University and Columbia
Law School.

ANDREW CARD
Title: White House Chief of Staff
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

PAUL WOLFOWITZ
Title: Deputy Secretary of Defense
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None. Went to Cornell University and University of
Chicago instead.

RICHARD PERLE
Title: Chairs Pentagon ( news - web sites)'s Defense Policy Board;
Assistant Secretary of Defense
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: Sat out the Vietnam War at the University of Chicago.

ARI FLEISCHER ( news - web sites)
Title: White House Press Secretary
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

TOM RIDGE
Title: Director of the Homeland Security Office
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: In his first year at the Dickinson School of Law, he was
drafted into the U.S. Army and served as an infantry staff sergeant in
Vietnam, earning the Bronze Star for Valor.

ELLIOTT ABRAMS
Title: Senior Director, National Security Council
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

KARL ROVE
Title: Senior White House Adviser
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

JOHN ASHCROFT ( news - web sites)
Title: Attorney General
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: He received a deferment during the Vietnam War and taught
business education at a Missouri college.?

COLIN POWELL ( news - web sites)
Title: Secretary of State
Stance on Iraq: Anti-war
Military history: Powell served two tours in Vietnam. During the second, he
survived a helicopter crash landing, then went back into the smoking
wreckage and saved his commanding general and two other soldiers. Powell
received two Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star, a Soldier's Medal and the Legion
of Merit. In 1973, he took command of a battalion in South Korea ( news -
web sites). Later that year, he returned to Washington as a staff officer
at the Pentagon. His career has encompassed the invasions of Grenada (1983)
and Panama (1989), 1991 Gulf War ( news - web sites), the 1992-93
engagement in Somalia and the crisis in Bosnia.

RICHARD ARMITAGE
Title: Deputy Secretary of State
Stance on Iraq: Anti-war
Military history: U.S. Naval Academy grad and Vietnam veteran.

ASA HUTCHINSON
Title: Director of the Drug Enforcement Administration
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

TOMMY THOMPSON
Title: Secretary of Health and Human Services ( news - web sites)
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: National Guard.


POLITICIANS

JOHN McCAIN
Title: Senator, R-Arizona
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: In 1967, he was shot down over Vietnam and held as a
prisoner of war in Hanoi for five and a half years. He retired from the
Navy as a captain in 1981. McCain's naval honors include the Silver Star,
Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.

TOM DASCHLE
Title: Senate Majority Leader, D-South Dakota
Stance on Iraq: Anti-war
Military history: Vietnam War vet. Served three years as an intelligence
officer in the U.S. Air Force Strategic Air Command.

JOHN KERRY
Title: Senator, D-Massachusetts
Stance on Iraq: Anti-war
Military history: Highly decorated Vietnam War vet.


JIM JEFFORDS
Title: Senator, I-Vermont
Stance on Iraq: Anti-war
Military history: Served active duty with the U.S. Navy ( news -web sites)
from 1956 to 1959, and retired from the U.S. Naval
Reserve as a captain in 1990.

PETE STARK
Title: Congressman, D-California
Stance on Iraq: Anti-war
Military history: Vietnam War vet. Stark served in the U.S. Air Force.

HARRY REID
Title: Assistant Senate Majority Leader; D-Nevada
Stance on Iraq: Anti-war
Military history: None

DENNIS KUCINICH
Title: Congressman, D-Ohio
Stance on Iraq: Anti-war
Military history: None

BARBARA LEE
Title: Congresswoman, D-California
Stance on Iraq: Anti-war
Military history: None

RUSS FEINGOLD
Title: Senator, D-Wisconsin
Stance on Iraq: Anti-war
Military history: None

BOB BARR
Title: Congressman, R-Georgia
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

PHIL GRAMM
Title: Senator, R-Texas
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: Received a marriage deferment and avoided
Vietnam.

TRENT LOTT
Title: Senate Minority Leader, R-Mississippi
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

DENNIS HASTERT
Title: House Majority Leader, R-Illinois
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

DICK ARMEY
Title: House Majority Leader, R-Texas
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

TOM DeLAY
Title: House Majority Whip, R-Texas
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: The most powerful hawk in the House of
Representatives. A no-show in Vietnam. He is said to have once
complained that he would have served but all the spots were taken
up by ethnic minorities.

JOSEPH LIEBERMAN
Title: Senator, D-Connecticut
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

JEB BUSH
Title: Florida Governor, Republican
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

OTHERS

BILL CLINTON
Title: Former President
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war. The goal to remove Saddam was adopted
during Clinton's reign on the eve of his impeachment vote, though
recently he has raised doubts about going after him.
Military history: None, with Vietnam deferment.

DAN QUAYLE ( news - web sites)
Title: Former Vice President
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None. Served in the National Guard.

GEORGE H. W. BUSH
Title: Former President
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: WWII fighter pilot.

JAMES BAKER
Title: Former Secretary of State
Stance on Iraq: Anti-war. Warned last week that acting unilaterally
against Iraq would be unwise.
Military history: Spent two years of active duty as a lieutenant in
the United States Marine Corps in the 1950s.

JACK KEMP
Title: Former Congressman
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None. Played pro football instead.

TOM HAYDEN
Title: Former California state Senator
Stance on Iraq: Anti-war
Military history: None

WAYNE LaPIERRE
Title: Executive vice president of National Rifle Association
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

BILL O'REILLY
Title: Fox News commentator, "The O'Reilly Factor"
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

FRANK GAFFNEY
Title: Founder/director of the Center for Security Policy
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

WILLIAM KRISTOL
Title: Editor of The Weekly Standard
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

ROBERT KAGAN
Title: Member of Project for a New American Century
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER
Title: Nationally syndicated columnist
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: Missed out because he is Canadian.

GARY BAUER ( news - web sites)
Title: Christian Right leader
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

MARTIN PERETZ
Title: The New Republic editor
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

WILLIAM BENNETT
Title: Former drug czar; co-director of Empower America
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

GEORGE WILL
Title: Essayist
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

NEWT GINGRICH
Title: Former House Speaker
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

RUSH LIMBAUGH
Title: Radio personality
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: Missed Vietnam because of anal cysts.

BRITT HUME
Title: FOX commentator
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

ALAN KEYES ( news - web sites)
Title: MSNBC host
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

JERRY FALWELL
Title: Religious personality
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

KENNETH STARR
Title: Former independent counsel
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

ANTONIN SCALIA ( news - web sites)
Title: U.S. Supreme Court ( news - web sites) Justice
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

CLARENCE THOMAS ( news - web sites)
Title: U.S. Supreme Court Justice
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

RUDY GIULIANI
Title: Former mayor of New York
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

SYLVESTER STALLONE
Title: Actor
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: None

[Gimpy]

is the fact that those who have NOT seen the horror of war are the FIRST to jump on the bandwagon to GO to WAR!

The two most disgusting in MY opinion are ole Dick (head) Cheney with his revolting statement about HIS "experience" during the 60's and ESPECIALLY ole Rush Limburger---I always knew he was an A$$HOLE---now the facts are indisputable!!!!

[kenmar]

Gimpy, Amen!!!

This guy DeLay is another one !

Because I didn't see any combat, I sometimes feel a little uncomfortable mouthing off about those who didn't serve.But looking at the list and seeing guy's like DeLay, who avoided serving at all, makes me feel a little better for at least volunteering my time to serve my country..

Ken

Title: House Majority Whip, R-Texas
Stance on Iraq: Pro-war
Military history: The most powerful hawk in the House of
Representatives. A no-show in Vietnam. He is said to have once
complained that he would have served but all the spots were taken
up by ethnic minorities.

[reeb]

KENMAR,

It do not matter whether or not you seen combat!!!!!!!

You were there and when the USA needed you.

I was not in actual combat, but I was in Nam for 3 and one half years of which 9 I WOULDNT TRADE FOR ONE WEEK END IN NEW YORK BORROWS.

I am proud of what I did and YOU should be also.

You could ask alot of your cronnies from High School "how is Cananda"!!!!

Short way around::::

We done our duty to protect our property of the USA and BE PROUD OF IT.

Just remember Veterans Day and FLY THE FLAG AND GO TO PARADES ( whatever ) AND YOU WILL FEEL MORE AT HOME .

I still think and always have that ANY elected official to the high government should have served in the Military- whether behind a desk or on the front line or even a cook.

You got your self respect as most of us did.

The only thing bad about Viet Nam or any other War/ Political action is that ::

You have to leave the ones you really love for a year or two.

enough..............

[kenmar]

Reeb..

Thanks for the feedback. There's one thing you saidthat I totally believe...it's the thing about polititians serving. I know that's not gonna be possible the way things are now.But if every every citizen of the USAhad to serve in the military,even forsix months, that would eventually solve that problem. And I really believe it would dramatically reduce the crime rate. Boot camp does something besides getting you physically fit. I would argue that in most cases itchanges your belief system for the better.

I can dream...

Ken

[reeb]

Kenmar.

What is your opion on the vote page?

18 Months.

Hell by the time boot camp is over and take your leave and go to your first post, YOU ARE OUT!!!!!

JFK almost got us out, but then comes LBJ.

OH WELL!!!!!

enough...........

[kenmar]

Reeb,

Help me out, which vote page ?

[reeb]

Ken,

On the front page here.

Cast your vote.

Be an American like you are.

Right hand corner when you sign on.

18 months is no longer than a school summer vacation.

To each his own.

enough............

[kenmar]

Thanks Reeb, I should have been able to find that myself. Sure proves my powers of observation suck!

[Timothy R. Kuhr]

Reeb,
Cast my vote NO. 18 months and they can go fill sandbags and burn stuff.
Like you, and bunches of us, I spent 15 mos.+ without firing my rifle at anyone, and ducking mortar and rockets and the ocaisional "to whom it may concern" sniper shot into the compound.
My platoon in boot camp was over 70% 6mo. reserve and I wouldn't want them walking behind me on patrol.
Minimun should be three years.