If we don't remember our past then we are doomed to re-live it

[blues clues]

I'm not sure who wrote those words but they are sure holding true for todays news.
I just finished reading a book the Gods of War and some things what is going on today happened back in the 40's with Japan, when our government put an oil an steel embargo on Japan ( don't get me wrong I think that Japan would have attacked anyway)what we did was put their backs to the wall left them no other choise.
The way I see this thing about North Korea is about the samething we are putting their backs to the wall. They know they can't win a war with us but what do they have to lose eather lose a few milion people through starvation or freezing to death from no heat, or kill a few million and lose more million's in a war now that's a hell-of-a -choise but that's the way it looks.
I'm no lover of the N. Koreans don't care what they do in their own country or how they treat their people, But I'm a big hater of war and all the killing that will take place! remember we've only have 36,000 or so troops on the DMZ they got I've heard a 1,000,000,000 men army and even if only half of them has a rife they could go through our troops like crap through goose,I'm sure our troops will take a hellof lot down but that would lead to the only thing left to do use nukes and I don't think China will set still for that so now you see where I'm going don't you.
Before any of you say anything no I don't think the south will help us eather they don't like us,they will be our friends to the last drop of our blood.
Maybe someone in Gods name will remember our past so we wont have to re-live it.
razz

[Tamaroa]

Arnold Toynbee was a British historian. "Of the many books written by Toynbee, the 12-volume series iA Study of History/i (1934-1961) has had considerable influence on modern attitudes toward history, religion, and international affairs. It is a comparative study of 26 civilizations in world history, analyzing their genesis, growth, and disintegration. According to Toynbee's hypothesis, the failure of a civilization to survive was the result of its inability to respond to moral and religious challenges, rather than to physical or environmental challenges" . I think this can easily be applied to what you just said. Though I think it was somebody else who said "If we don't remember our past then we are doomed to re-live it".

BillD.

[catman]

I may be wrong, but I think it was Nathan Hale. Who made that quote.

I too hate war. Another good quote is, "nobody hates war more than the soldiers that fight it".

So what is the answer? Should we stand back and play the lackey and say "yes sir, yes sir, three bags full"? I for one am glad to see Bush saying enough! I am sick and tired of all these third world countries holding us hostage. My personal way would be recall all deployed troops and seal the boarders and let all the evil flow. It would take less then 6 months for the entire world to be in a fight.

I don't like being the world police force but if not us than who? England? Canada? France? Russia? Our fathers, grandfathers and uncles made us the world police force in WWII. They went around the globe kicking the shit out of everybody that got in their way.(A much needed thing to do at the time.) Every since then we have had the current job of policing the world. Korea, Veitnam, Iraq, Somila, Haiti, Central America and the list goes on and on. Sit down and read a little history about each of the wars and ask yourself, did it really threaten America? Or was it just a matter that we did no agree with. On just about every account the answer would be a resound no it did not threaten the USA.

If you are willing, we can boil down a few right here.....

Korea - Civil war, on their soil. Threat to US? No.

Vietnam - Civil war, on their soil. Threat to US? No.

Iraq - Border dispute with neighbor. Threat to US? No. Threat to US big buisness? Yes.

I know that things go a little deeper that this, but boiled down those are the basic reasons the three last major wars were fought. Somewhere, somehow, someone told us that we are the good guys and what we think is right and everyone else is wrong. We than take it upon ourselves to wage war with anyone who thinks differently than us.

I don't know the answers gentlemen, wish I did. I do know that I still beleive in the US, got very choked up last night hearing the National Anthem at a rodeo, and I would gladly go back in uniform if they would let me. I guess we should rely on the one and only thing that they have not taken from us vets. Prayer.

Take care brothers and sisters, I will pray for you all.

Trav

[reconeil]

Still, and if things stay: "Conventional", I believe that you're shrugging-off as inconsequential some of the fiercest fighters and American Allies on The Korean Peninsula. Such being The "ROK's" (re. the highly trained (by us) and well armed South Korean Army.

Also, it has always been my understanding that these smaller type GI's...aren't exactly pussy-cats. Plus, "They" will be fighting in defense of their very own country, to-boot. These points should count also. Don't you think?

Neil

[blues clues]

Cat there are some wars that need to be fought Idon't like saying that but the truth. but some of them are just plan stupid not saying all wars aren't just stupid. I like you I don't have any anwsers if we did we'd be God so where do we go from here? lock an load and go marching off to war singing God bless American waving the flag and kill every mothers son on the earth! stupid just stupid.
razz

[blues clues]

Neil I have seen the ROK in action they can take care of their selfs but those nuts up north will use a nuke just to see what it'll do.
razz

[Tamaroa]

The Spanish American war was caused by Big Business and Yellow Journalism. Another war that we had no business fighting was the Mexican War, Manifest Destiny?????? :cd: Harumph!!!!

The problem today is quite simple. Will the American public back the government??? They did not in Viet Nam, hence the result, no support for our GI's. During the Civil War 30% casualties were common in a regiment. 50% was occasional with rare casualties hitting 85 to 88%.

Nowadays 10% will get you court martialed if you are the colonel. We as a people are furious, we are angry over what happened on 9/11. But are we willing to let our sons and daughters blood be spilled over it? There in lies the question.

If we go to war, and it does not go the way of Gulf War I with mass surrenders, if we take heavy casuslties. Be forewatrned, this generation does not have the guts of the WW2 crowd, not by a long shot. Our soldiers are good, they are brave and well trained. It is not with our armed forced thast I am worried. It is the home front, pure and simple.

BillD.

[David]

Originally posted by Tamaroa
If we go to war, and it does not go the way of Gulf War I with mass surrenders, if we take heavy casuslties. Be forewatrned, this generation does not have the guts of the WW2 crowd, not by a long shot. Our soldiers are good, they are brave and well trained. It is not with our armed forced thast I am worried. It is the home front, pure and simple.

BillD.

I believe this generation does have the guts. I think they will rise to the occasion if led purposefully. I would submit it is a matter of a lack of great leaders, not of those willing to follow.

[reconeil]

Understood full well. Still, and since nowadays having All Volunteer Forces and no Draft,...don't believe that there will be near as many card-burning cowards around as before, to get any massive protests going.

Sure, there will always be INTELLECTUALS(?) worried about and favoring The Enemy. But, so what?

Neil

[SuperScout]

... wrote the words, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it," in Reason and Common Sense. I would be very careful in trying to place a mirror on the events leading up to WWII in Asia, and make this a valid comparison with the looming crisis in N Korea. We may, at the same time, take a look at the pages of the past, and see how the Israelis dealt with their perceived threat of an Iraqi nuclear reactor, by bombing it into oblivion. One of our problems, held for too long, is that we guage our actions by what the rest of the world will think of us, rather than what is in our best national interests. Now we have learned that you cannot promise anything to the N Korean regime, and expect them to abide by their word; they have no morality, no honor, no sanity, and any attempt to deal with them other than through brute force is futile. I suspect that the GWB administration is back-channeling some info and sugar to the Red Chinese, who are as threatened by the N. Koreans as anybody else, and encouraging them to deal with the problem.
And before anybody gets too exercised with the numbers, it's a million man army that the NPK have, not billion as originally written. Having some knowledge about the region, I would like to correct some of the mainstream media, who are peddling the continuous lie that the S. Koreans don't like us - horse sheet and bull feathers. They are better allies that the Germans are for us in Europe by miles. And better troops.