political arguments and friendship...

[MORTARDUDE]

a wise man said long ago never discuss religion, politics, sex, or work for or borrow money from friends or relatives, and don't spit into the wind....or something like that...

Anyway, after looking at all the political posts on here and all the arguments that have resulted, and the very few times anyone's minds have been changed about ANYTHING, I have decided to restrict my posts in this area. I am going to be looking for mostly Vietnam related information to post, as that would be of interest to most of us. I value the friendships I have made here over the past 4+ years too much to get all wound up over this anymore... I seem to be one of the few who has moved from the right to sort of to the left. My reasons have been posted numerous times, and I would be more than glad to share these with you by PM, email, in person, or on the phone....But NOT here anymore. I love all you guys and gals too much to continue all of this non-productive bickering for the next 9 months. I am going to channel my time, money ( what little I have left.. LOL !! ) and resources locally to ensure a regime change come November....Many of us answered our country's call and served in the military. Almost all of us have ancestors who did the same for this country in the past 229 years.... If have not registered to vote, or are turned off by the whole process, I can understand that to a degree, but we all owe it to those who have gone before, to participate. Thanks.

Larry Nuckolls

[Andy]

Childhood was a great time and a time to learn lessons. My dad had five brother and two sisters. Sunday?s were often spent at my grandparents house. The brothers loved to watch (or listen to on the radio), the Red Sox. They also enjoyed drinking beer, a lot. But arguing politics was probably their favorite activity. Sometimes it got loud enough so grandma had to yell ?Cheho?, Polish for ?Quiet?. The boys would always take heed and cool it, for a little while.

Regardless of how heated the arguments got when it was time for someone to go home, there were always a handshakes all the way around. People were saying good luck with that idiot boss of yours, hope you get that new car, etc.

I love to debate, argue, discuss whatever. Brought my son?s up the same way. If you learn to compartmentalize things will go fine. To argue a point where there is little agreement and you can remember that just because someone doesn?t agree with you on that point, that doesn?t make him a bad person - then everything is fine.

My wife?s cousin has a husband who isn?t a bad guy but his views on religion and politics are (IMO) totally off the wall. I love to see this guy and we argue like hell but he does have a perminate invitation to our home. We don?t stay mad at each other, just annoyed at some of the other?s thoughts.

Another wise person once said, If two people totally agree on everything in life, there is no reason for one of them to exist.

Larry this post is not pointed at you, I'm just thinking out loud.

Stay healthy,
Andy

[82Rigger]

...what Andy said.

It's true what you say about getting "wound up" over political opinions.
It's also true what you say about probably never being able to change anyone's mind.

But for me, many of your posts have been a learning experience.
Many times when reading your posts I have said to myself,"Well, I never thought of it that way." or "I didn't know that. That needs to be considered."

The only problem I have with such discussions is when they turn into insulting and name calling. And that applies to ANY kind of post.

Whenever I read a post that I vehemently disagree with, I always remember that statement (and I can't remember who said it):

"I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Whenever I remember that, I can leave that post feeling good about it. And in doing so I HAVE in spirit defended that person's right to say it.

Your posts are very informative and of much value.

[Gimpy]

C'mon now Dude!

What Andy and Steve said!

To hell with it if folks want to get "mad" about things people post.

We ALL get a great deal out of what you post and it would be a shame to have your "voice" not availble for us all to study and enjoy??

[reconeil]

Understand where-you're comin-from and escapin-to. I totally despise politicos and politics as much as the next guy, if not more so.

Plus, it's very difficult trying to discuss and debate rationally, what most inately and already realize is usually nothing more than ruling elite cliques dividing people for battleling against or for MOST EVERYTHING (even biasedly special interests). Besides, discussing politics and politicos is much like discussing The Weather. In neither venue can: "We The (Schnooks)" do much about it.

Mother Nature and politics have much in common. "We The (Schnooks) must perpetually suffer both,...and occasionally even get some GOOD out of both. Unfortunately for both,...only "Occasionally".

Regardless, have a nice respite back in The Real World and/or a non-political world,...wherever-the-hell that might be? Politics INVADES every facet of American Life: "From the cradle to the grave",...so stay away from The Tube.

Neil

[MORTARDUDE]

Well, it seems no one quite got what I was trying to say....I will try to re-group and say it a different way. There are maybe 50 - 80 folks who regularly post on here. I have no way to tell how many of the other 5,000+ stick around for any length of time, or wht they read... Of the folks that regularly post, I consider each and every one sort of like an extended family. I have only been able to meet in person and talk on the phone to a few of you. What I owe you as a group is in no small measure my life..You can read about there elsewhere in my posts...I guess what I am trying to say is the constant posts about politics has reached the burn-out threshold with me. We seem to get very few new members now, and it just gets kind of old with the liberal vs. conservative-never-ending-arguments. If there were a few others on here that wern't so hijacked by all-the-hoopla of both parties, maybe I could get interested. I am not bailing. I will still post stuff I find interesting in other forums, mostly Vietnam War related items, or veteran's issues... I appreciate all your kind comments. But nine more months of this is a bit much...Like I tried to say...friendship is more important to me than political ideology right now. When all the political-ad-money has been spent, when all the hoopla is over, and the next president is sworn in on January 20, 2005, will anything change for the better ? I would like to think so, but I have lived 55 years, and I KNOW better. Politicians of all parties will continue to lie, veterans will continue to get f*cked over, active duty, National Guard,and Reserve troops will not get the equipment, pay and benefits they deserve, Congress will pork-up every bill they pass, kids will still go to bed hungry, our education system will continue to deteriorate, our porous Southern border will continue to be a vehicle for illegal aliens, crime of all types, and drugs, and our leaders will continue to spend the country into oblivion, with a price-tag everyone under 30 will have to pay for many decades to come... that is where I am coming from. I hope that is clear, if not I will try again... LOL

Larry

Larry,

I agree 100% with what you've just said.You and I almost always disagree on political issues but I've learned both here and on the other forums that you are a man with both a good mind and a good heart.I consider you a bro. and very much hope you feel the same way about things.If-at any time in the "heat of the moment"-I have said anything that hit you on a personal level,please be advised that it was unintentional and consider this a sincere appology for same.

Used to hang around with a group of wonderfully strange folks known as the SCA.They were (and are I assume)about a lot of things.One of their activites was to suit up in especially modified armor,take up highly modified "swords","maces","axes",etc.;then go out on the field and try their level best to kill each other.Soon as the event was over they could all be found laughing and drinking together.This reminds me of the political forum when it works like it ought to.

I swear off coming any where near the political forum about every other week.Then-after a few days-I just gotta take a little peek;then the first thing I know I've spent two or three days makeing posts.Then I swear off it again.Maybe you'll have better self-control than I do.If so I'll see ya on the other forums.

Good luck.

Peace

Hal

[MORTARDUDE]

Thanks Hal. No apologies necessary. Take care.

Larry

[Seascamp]

I have given your position a lot of thought and find that I agree with you probably more than I thought or recognized at first. In my opinion this site is becoming a public kiosk for political hate messages that are more and more are getting over the line of hateful obsessive-compulsive behavior. Debate is one thing, hate is quite another and they now seem to run together all too often now and in all the wrong places.
I?m probably not the first to come to this observation and conclusion nor will I be the last as it is a very long-standing situation. So I reckon I have to decide whether I?m part of the problem here or can be part of the solution and then act accordingly. This political season is ugly and bloody enough without us using it to destroy the intent and purpose of this site.

Scamp

[MORTARDUDE]

Scamp :

Thanks for your, as usual, excellent reply !! I try to look at this site as our non-veteran visitors might. Unfortunately, many times it is not a very pretty picture. Some of us ( me included ) come across as tired, cranky, ranting, old codgers ( I have been called "O Growly One" before.., right Sue !! LOL ) !!! LOL LOL..

I also believe most of us, outside of our political ranting, have a great deal of knowledge on a whole range of subjects, besides war and politics, to impart to those younger than ourselves...

( maybe that is why we don't get many new members from the younger generation ?? .... )

Unfortunately, war and politics ARE a very big part of life...trying to talk about all of that and not lapse into the usual right-and-left-wing-harangues is very, very difficult, and probably near impossible for most of us.....

thanks again,

Larry