Room For One More Veteran?

[David]

It is February 1973. The first of the Vietnam POWs are returning home. Most would salute and carry on. Air Force Captain Al Brudno saluted too, but four months later took his own life: the first of the prisoners to die.

"It was as if he was bleeding internally, in the heart and in the mind, and nobody saw it," says his younger brother Bob Brudno.

And as CBS News Correspondent Jim Stewart reports, Bob Brudno will never, ever forget.

"I don't think he was capable of surviving by himself," he says of his older borther. "Somebody said, 'Maybe you'll reach closure.' For what?"

Al Brudno was an F-4 pilot, an MIT graduate and an aspiring astronaut when he was captured. He spent seven and a half years as a POW.

After the war the Vietnam Memorial would be built and years would pass before Bob Brudno finally asked to have his brother's name added to it. And the answer stunned him. Vietnam Memorial Fund president Jan Scruggs said vets who committed suicide back in the U.S. were not welcome on the wall.

"It didn't matter to him," says Bob Brudno. "He just saw suicides as, I don't know, maybe a weakness of some sort -- like there was a choice my brother had."

CBS News asked Mr. Scruggs several times for comment. He declined.

In a press release, Scruggs said he had the greatest sympathy for the Brundo family, but that to allow Al Brudno's name on the wall would violate its purpose: to honor those who died in combat and invite consideration for thousands of other suicides. Bob Brudno disagrees.

"He was tortured by the enemy in direct combat, pulled up to the ceiling with his arms behind his back until he couldn't stand it any longer, and he needed help, and he didn't get it," says Brudno. "That's why I want his name on the wall.

"A couple of inches of granite is a small thing to ask from this country to recognize what he went through."

The Air Force has recommended that Brudno's name be added to the wall. The Pentagon is expected to make a final decision soon.

[David]

This is an issue that has been brought up before. People have lobbied for veterans being added to the wall for many reasons from suicide to agent orange poisoning. How do you as Vietnam veterans feel about this?

Below is a picture of Air Force Captain Al Brudno.

[Andy]

Captain Brudno was obviously quite a guy. Not only a pilot but a graduate of MIT. Did you know you have to have an SAT score of 1450 to get into that school? He wanted to be an astronaut, a high achiever with high expectations. After all those years as a POW no doubt he hated himself because he wasn?t superman. No doubt sometimes the sadists who held him put him through too much for anyone to endure. He needed help and didn?t get it, a very sad situation.

I apologize for comparing myself to such a man but will. In 1999 I was told my cancer was in it?s fourth stage, (six months or less to live). The cancer was determined to have been caused by exposure to Agent Orange. Great doctors, experimental drugs and God got me out of that very deep hole. If I had died should my name have been put on the wall? Of course not, I didn?t die in Vietnam. Neither did Captain Brudno.

For hundreds of years we had what was called equestrian memorials. If a soldier died in battle his statue was him sitting on a horse with both of the front feet up in the air. If he died of wounds received, sometime later in life one foot was in the air. If he died later in life due to natural causes all four feet of the horse were on the ground.

It?s my understanding, the names on the wall are people who died in Vietnam. That seems very reasonable. If others are allowed inclusion, take that to it?s logical conclusion. A person 40 years after the fact is being treated for PTSD and self-medicates by getting drunk, and gets in a car accident while under the influence. His name be included on the wall?

If someone wants to build a monument to people who die who were veterans of Vietnam or any other war, that?s fine. If those people, or their families can show there is a direct cause and effect with regard to military service, well build another wall. A wall that in the old days would be a man on a horse with just one foot off the ground.

Stay healthy,
Andy

[BLUEHAWK]

"Not welcome," eh?

We'll just see about that.

If what Andy says is so, then they've set the rules the way they have. I reckon most war monuments are done that way. But, seems mighty odd in a certain sense.

Guess it got me started thinking about another memorial then, on the same site, maybe on the rise above the apex of the V... like Arrow says here next.

Oughta be some way... there, at that particular site or real close by, if it can be shown the passing got started in VN service. It was a different kind of war, so maybe that needs to be acknowledged... in any case, my is with the ones.

[Arrow]

There is already in place a memorial plaque project for those that have died from service connected causes due to their service in Vietnam. It's been posted many times on this forum and site. I have been in phone contact with the woman that started that project and sad to say Jan Scruggs fought that project also until it got a congressional mandate and then he wanted controlof it. Last I heard that wasn't about to happen. But he has a lot of inroads into the beltway bureaucracyso can't say for sure.

The plaque is to be placednear the three man statue. Just readingthe location was changed from the end of the wall. It has been supported bythe major players in the Veteran organizations including God bless them "Rolling Thunder" and numerous individualsupporters. I'll but the link here again.

http://members.aol.com/vietwarmem/plaque2.htm

[SEATJERKER]

...I know there have been additions to the wall due to extenuating circumstances,...

...The post says the man WAS A POW for SEVEN, AND ONE HALF YEARS,...

...I personally think that his service went well beyond the call of duty,...

...???how soon after being released did the man give up on life???, within the year???,...

...I realize the initial guidelines set forth required actual death to take place "in country" however I believe this man died long before he left,...

...I am familiar with Andy's remarks regarding statues of soldiers of days past, and he is correct all the way down the line on them, however from Korea , after, and thru Vietnam, I believe what was know as 'traditional warfare" had ceased, and certain guidlines that engulfed the soldier then, does not apply now,...

...I believe that hundreds, if not thousands have died earlier then expected from what they encountered in Vietnam, and being a POW for as long as he was would then qualify him,...

...And again, my personal feelings are not meant to belittle anyone else's service during their time, I just hold a very special place for those who didn't make it home,...

...May he rest in peace,...

...I would say yes,...

...

[1CAVCCO15MED]

One of the reasons I did not go to the Wall for so many years is that I had a friend who comitted suicide in Vietnam. I was afraid he was not going to be on the Wall and that would have made me very angry. When I finally went, there he was: Evans Benbow, Jr, Panel 25W, Line 093. He is the main reason I go there. I agree with Andy that being put on the Wall might encourage suicides. I would like this guy to be put there but how to separate his case from others I don't know.

[Andy]

Thanks Fred very much for more clearly stating one of the points I didn?t make very clear. Granting an honor for suicides is the absolute last thing we need to do. If a person is on the edge, thinking of taking his own life, he needs negative reinforcement not positive reinforcement.

How would other cases be judged if this gentleman who gave so much had his name added to the Wall? Any court of law, in a case like this, would say, ?The privilege granted to a few are the rights that should be expected by the many?. The flood gates would open and 300,000+ names might appear on a much expanded wall.

Sorry if my first post sounded head hearted but the negatives far out way the positives. It?s not an issue of our honored dead, it?s keep as many folks as possible from being dead, as long as possible. And it?s having a special place of honor for those who died at 19, never having a chance at a life.

Stay healthy,
Andy

[Arrow]

Inscription on plaque...

[Tamaroa]

Perhaps, he can find a place here in the National POW Museum. Check out these two sites. I believe it would be more appropriate.


http://www.nps.gov/ande/



http://www.montezuma-ga.org/chamber/pow.html





(ANDERSONVILLE, GA.)--Of the estimated 800,000 American men and women who have been held as prisoners of war throughout the nation's history, about 56,000 are alive today; and many of those former POWs are expected here April 9 for the dedication of the National Prisoner of War Museum at Andersonville National Historic Site.

For people like William Bearisto, of Waltham, Massachusetts, a prisoner of the Germans in World War II, it will be a particularly poignant moment. "You do not appreciate your freedom until it is taken away," said Bearisto. "This museum will help people begin to understand the sacrifices made by our veterans and the value of freedom in our country."

His sentiments are echoed by William L. Fornes, a Korean War POW, now a resident of Valdosta, Georgia, who played a key role in establishing the new museum. "To be born free is an accident," said Fornes. "To live free is a privilege, and to die free is a responsibility. Andersonville is a fitting memorial to the spirit as well as the experiences of all POWs."

The museum is located adjacent to an infamous Civil War prison on the grounds of a national park site authorized by Congress as a nation's grateful tribute to all U.S. men and women, civilian and military, who have been POWs--from the American Revolution to Desert Storm.

Many of the former POWs contributed or helped raise money to finance the $5.8 million memorial. And one of their own--Arizona Senator and former Vietnam POW, John McCain--will be the featured speaker at the dedication ceremony.

Fred Boyles, superintendent of Andersonville National Historic Site, said the museum dedication may be one of the last gatherings for some POWs from World War II and Korea.

"In 1982, more than 93,000 former POWs were still alive," said
The wall is not the place for his name. On the other hand, in andersonville Georgia there is the National Prisoner of War Museum. Perhaps an appropriate place can be found for him there


Boyles. "Now that number is down to about 56,000. So this national memorial takes on added significance to those veterans who are nearing the end of their lives."

Sally Bateman Morgan, who was a child when she was captured with missionaries by Japanese troops in the Philippines during the Second World War, said, "Andersonville will tell our story to a world who needs to know what supposedly civilized people can do to their fellow men, women, and children."

Morgan, who now lives in Grand Prairie, Texas, added, "We are the survivors, and this museum is a testament to our survival."

Another German POW, Louis D. Guillory, of Bay St. Louis, Mississippi, noted that the museum "leaves a legacy to our children and grandchildren that the price of freedom is not free.

"I would not hesitate to do it all over again in order to preserve what we have and to leave freedom to our families," Guillory said.


Bill

PS I accidentally did a double post here and on another thread. David if you want to knock one out, go ahead.