Fly uo-side down answers

[cadetat6]

My dad flew P-39s in North Africa. My aunt once told me he was so exhausted sometimes he'd try to land upside down. Just figured she was telling a story...now, knowing a lot more about PTSD/combat fatigue/shell shock it may be possible if the plane will do it.

This just came up in Clay Thompson's Valley 101 column in the Arizona Republic yesterday. Guy who researched it says, "When a pilot is flying upside down, what really matters is what they call the angle of attack. The angle of attack has to do with the fact that airplane wings are tilted to force the air downward. Since for every action, there is an reaction, forcing the air downward forces the wings up. So to fly upside down, a stunt pilot flips the plane and uses the flaps to tilt the plane into a high angle of attack so the wings still force the air downward. Keeping the now up and the tail down helps. How the plane's fuel pump works when it is upside down is a matter we shall discuss another day."

The only instance I can think of is while doing loops....think roller coaster that does the loop de loops. This kind of hurts.....but isn't that due to Centripetal force or something? I just don't see how you couldn't know your upside down while your flying level...

No, the pilot uses the elevators to set the angle of attack, whether upright or inverted. Although most aerobatic aircraft are not equipped with flaps (high lift/drag devices), their use while attempting to maintain inverted flight would not be a good idea.

cadetat6-
I can't be specific because I can't recall the books or the articles but flying upside down and not knowing does and has happened, especially at night. I vaguely recall this phenomenon occuring when the pilot was flying by sight only and don't using his flight instruments.

Isn't there an Urban Legend about that? At least there was in the Airwing.

A pilot is practicing his inverted flying, he sees some power lines, and pulls UP, right into terra firma.

Trust your instruments.

While flying in fog or clouds, you better stay level, using your instruments.

I've flown 'out' of these situations thinking I was level, and just about sheeit my pants trying to straighten back up.

Weird feeling, sucks!!

reguardless of the craft that you are flying can and will occure. When flying at night or in fog your location to earth is lost. As long as you remain straight and level it may not happen but when you go into a long bank the fluid in the ear is pushed to the side. At this time you begin to believe that up is down and down is up in refferance to the earth. Your mind will tell you to turn it upside down when pulling out of the bank. The instruments will tell you the opposit. BELIEVE YOUR INSTRUMENTS!!!

I served with four fine Marines that ended up in a rice pattie because the pilot turned over the helo that they were in after a series of banks around a mountain pass.

Is it real? Oh yes---It's hard to override your mind and believe the instruments---been there!

remember my flight training from years ago. My instructor always preached to us that we should believe our instruments and not our senses. To illustrate this, my instructor put me 'under the hood' which prevented me from seeing outside the aircraft. I had to put my head down on my chest and hold my hands over my eyes as well. The instructor then put the aircraft through some violent maneuvers, turns, climbs, descents and then left it in what we called an 'unusual attitude'. He would then ask me if I thought I was flying right side up, right side down, sideways or was I going up or down. My equilibrium was off balanced enough that I couldn't tell. I remember telling him that I thought I was right side up and flying straight and level. Well, I got the right side up part ok but when I lifted my head up and took off the hood I found that my aircraft was in nearly a 30 degree left bank, nose down and heading for the ground and I hadn't felt it. Of course, my instruments said that I was in a left descending spiral. I think the part about flying upside down might be stretching it a bit but it could happen. There is nothing funny about being inverted when you didn't intend to be.

Don't trust the seat of your pants! During unusual attitude practice you'll swear you're doing one thing, a glance at the instruments will tell you something else, which you refuse to believe, until you look up over the panel and see that the instruments are correct. Through night flying or bad weather into the mix, and the seat of your pants is the last thing you want to trust in. There are a lot of perfectly good dead pilots who trusted the seat of their pants.

Years ago I saw an in-cockpit video of the great showman Bob Hoover flying a twin engine North American Shrike Commander doing an entire aerobatic routine while imposing only normal positive G on the pilot and the airframe. How did the viewer know this? Throughout the whole routine a tumbler of iced tea sat on the top of the instrument panel! Hoover even poured tea into the tumbler from a pitcher while performing a full 360 degree aileron roll! What do you suppose the seat of your pants would be telling you then with the horizon completely in the wrong place?

The three most useless commodities in aviation:
1. The runway behind you.
2. The altitude above you.
3. The fuel you've already burned out of the tank.

I'm always confused about the aerodynamics of upside down flight. Before I go further please be aware that I'm neither a pilot nor an aeronautical engineer. That said, it's my understanding that the shape of aircraft wings is such that the airflow around the wings (above and below) is directed in such a way as to produce a lower air pressure above the wing and a higher pressure below thus creating the lift that keeps the plane aloft. If the plane is upside down, it seems that conditions should be reversed and there should be a lower pressure below the wing and a higher pressure above, thus producing a net downward force on the wing? If so, how does an upside-down plane stay aloft??

with the inertia of a jet fighter or very fast fighter like a P-51 you are traveling fast enough forwards you don't feel like your upside down (like water in a bucket being swung over your head) plus the fuel bladder keeps the fuel flowing via the fuel pump unlike the gravity feed fuel systems of WW-1 and early WW-2 planes. I hope that helps with both your questions.

Perhaps they are in clouds and have vertigo or night flying. I think your inner ear and eyes are what tells your brain the direction up and down is. If you are confused and can't see the ground then all you have to go by is the inner ear to tell your brain what is up and down. Many pilots died because they believed their ear and not the instruments.

It is not hard to fool the brain into thinking the wrong thing. Have you ever been at a red light with a car on each side of you ? If the cars on both sides of you move forward and you stay still, your brain will tell you that you are moving backward when you are not.

[catman]

Way too complicated to this Oklahoma boy, I'll stick to the Artillery and keeping my feet planted firmly on the ground where I know which way is up!!!

Thanks for sharing, it was very interesting!

Trav

[SparrowHawk62]

Double tap..

[SparrowHawk62]

The USS Independence had an Air Frace Major who was flying an F-4 come over her deck inverted! Later claimed he had vertigo.
It was a strange sight to see, I'd bet his back seater had to change his flight suit.

[1CAVCCO15MED]

My father in law talked about the P-38 pilots on Guadalcanal buzzing the runway at Henderson Field uside down with the landing gear down (up?) when they made a kill. He said they waved like crazy.